I'm likely mistaken, but my gut sense is that lower emissions
means lower performance, and lower mileage. My guess is that
the "fix" will be a downgrade of some kind.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:25:23 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Then how do you explain the FACT that todays engines -
1)produce higher spedific output than engines in the past
2) Consume fewer gallons of gas per unit distance travelled
3) produce lower exhaut emissions
-than the engines of only a few years back - muchless the
"uncontrolled" engines of the 50s and 60s, and the early emission
engines of the 70s and 80s?
VW will just have to step up to the plate and spend in retrofits what
they should have spent in initial design and production - plus.
This is almost entirely the result of fuel injection combined with
accurate feedback control. Feedback control makes a huge improvement
in the efficiency of the engine and that means both lower emissions
and more power.
And, it's true that it took the emission control regulations to force
the car manufacturers to start thinking out of the box at new ideas to
try and improve efficiency back in the seventies. Had it not been for
the emission control regulations, we might never have got the engine
improvements that make engines so much more efficiency today.
BUT, it's true that many of the other tricks used to get emissions
numbers down have been at the expense of performance, and many of them
have been just plain attempts to game the system.
There is a very longstanding tradition of gaming the system, dating back
to air pumps back in the seventies which did in fact improve the efficiency
of early catalytic converters, but mostly just diluted the exhaust so that
the concentration of emissions was reduced. The actual amount of emission
was the same, but the numbers recorded at the smog station were lower.
This current attempt on VW's part is not something new in isolation, this
is part of a tradition going back forty years now. It shouldn't surprise
anyone, and it's certainly not anything specific to VW.
Odds are that instead they will take the route of just leaving the
controller in "low emissions" mode all the time, which probably will
affect performance. Part of how that will work out will depend on what
they were actually doing to bring the numbers down, and we don't know that
without actually measuring it or looking at the controller source.
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
On 19 Sep 2015 14:29:47 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
The improvement in emissions was at least an order of magnitude more
than the "dilution" would have produced. This was in the days before
"storage" catalysts that can store oxygen (part of the reason mixtures
MUST oscillate around stoich - go rich, then lean, then rich) Air
needed to be added in order for the oxidizing catalist to function
Like AMC, Chrysler DID buy some engines from VW back around then -
the Omni-Horizon originally used a VAG supplied engine (Audi fox?) a
bit bigger than the rabbit engine at the time - and I believe AMC used
basically the same engine in the early 4 cyl Spirit.
The proper fix would be to buy the cars back from the (willing) owners
at bluebook and sell them to the (3rd world) countries that do not
participate in the smear campaign against VAG and could not care less
about the emissions.
An even more proper fix would be for VAG to withdraw from the american
There are lots of other markets where you do not have to make
emissions claims at all and that would appreciate the 4 banger
[turbo]diesels from VAG
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 04:42:00 +0000, Ewald Böhm wrote:
Possibly the insurance companies might deny liability for any claims if
the car has not been maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's
recommendations? They're well known for trying any get-outs they can and
the courts generally find in favour of them due to the doctrine of
'utmost good faith' which applies to insurance contracts.
You can feel good that the spotted owl is not choking on your fumes.
The only way to force you to get the fix is if the car will no longer
pass unless it was done. I don't know if the eqipment doing th testing
will be able to tell.
Sure will. You have to enter the VIN into the system to start the
inspection. IF the EPA requires a recall to reflash the ECM to remove
that software and "correct" the problem, that would have to be done at a
dealer. They will track completed vehicles by VIN. The state can just
flag ALL those vehicles. You pull in, they plug in the tester, and your
VIN doesn't show on the "recall complete" list. You don't get inspected.
That has happened before for other recalls. I'm betting the fix will be
to re-flash the ECM software to remove the "switch". Then run each one
through the full EPA test regardless of registration state. That because
this if a federal law that was broken.
What will be fun will be watching all the johnny racer types who
modified the cars by removing emissions gear and "tuning" the ECM. VW
could actually show them to the EPA and say "THEY removed the systems so
they should pay a fine as well".
Happens a lot more than you might think. States get into the act under
the umbrella of the EPA laws.
VW intentionally wrote software for their vehicles with the express
intent of violating the EPA laws. They admitted to that already so it
will be interesting to see what happens. The EPA could recall the cars,
judge them as "unrepairable gross polluters" and have them crushed. I
doubt they will go that far but they have done it before under the "cars
for cash" BS.
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