All my outllets in living and dining have no ground. I need to change them
over to three prong plugs.
I took one plug off that had a 3 prong plug installed and it had a small
ground wire running from the ground wire of the plug to the neutral.
Does this mean it is grounded or does this wire even serve a purpose? Will
it cause any problems?
If I read your original post correctly, you were saying there
is a jumper from the Grounding terminal to the "Neutral",
which would be the WH wire.
That is absolutely prohibited and is not a "viable option".
A better question is: Why do you "need" grounding recepts
in these rooms? What appliances need grounding?
Would you be better served by installing GFCI recepts instead?
These can be used where there is no grounding means at all.
can be used where there is no grounding means at all.>>
They Can? I'm not an electrician by trade, but I thought GFCI [Ground Fault
Circuit Interrupters] used the ground [not the load bearing neutral] as a
reference ground. Without a proper ground they wouldn't work right.
I thought that a new circuit had to be ran with both a ground and neutral
for GFCI receptacles to work correctly.
"Speedy Jim" < firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
Thanks for the link.. [it answered my question that you DO NEED A NON-LOAD
CARRYING GROUND] but your link does say to connect the 'ground'. Follow
your link and read the "how to install GFI"
"HaHaHa" < email@example.com> wrote in message
This subject has been covered pretty thoroughly recently. You do not
need a ground to install a GFCI, it should however be marked "no
equipment ground". You do need a ground for a surge suppressor to
function properly. The jumper to neutral you describe is not approved
and is dangerous.
That is how you would install a new GFCI receptacle if you have a ground in a
new or existing location.
If you don't have a ground you cannot ground it, and don't have to. Every GFCI
receptacle sold has a bunch of stickers - 4 which read "GFCI protected outlet"
1 for the GFCI and 3 for any possible downstream outlets which are also
protected . There are also 4 stickers which read "un-grounded outlet" in the
event you're installing the GFCI groundless, and want to protect 3 ungrounded,
Because it is dangerous. No, it is not a viable option.
I've replaced dozens of 2 prongs with 3 prongs and when there is no
ground wire present, I just leave the ground empty.
Ideally, I would run a single ground wire to each of the outlets and
ground it properly, but somehow never got around to it.
That is fine if the cable is actually listed by an electrical testing
laboratory as type AC that has the bonding strip inside the armor to
make it behave as a conductor instead of as a choke. Many homes are
wired with the older BX cable that has no bonding strip inside the
armor. Under fault conditions the armor of BX can heat to cherry red in
seconds and ignite nearby combustibles within minutes. In the absence
of the bonding strip you have three viable options. Replacing the
wiring with a listed type is the best followed by running a separate
ground wire with ground fault protection as the last resort.
You do, he doesn't. We've been through this many times on this group
and it appears that there's a faction that hates AC (BX is the
original trademarked name) and bad mouths it at every opportunity. The
usual chicken little, world's about to end, your insurance may not pay
up, horror scenarios are described but the facts are that the outer
armor of AC with and without the bonding strip is widely used as
equipment ground especially in the older cities and its use as such is
supported by the literature (even recommended in some books I've
Ignore the plaintive wailing of the doomsayers.
The laboratory testing and subsequent field experience has demonstrated
that the bonding strip does in fact make the armor of laboratory listed
type AC cable a fully adequate Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC). I
have personally fought four fires that resulted from fault heating in
the old BX cable in thirty years of volunteer fire and rescue service.
I strongly suggest that BX not be used as an EGC. The newer AC cable
has no such track record.
If I understand you properly this is a VERY DANGEROUS idea. It
converts a small danger into a major danger.
Specifically, if any of your outlets are miswired so that the neutral
and hot are switched (which unfortunately is not all that uncommon)
then in your case, the ground will be "hot" meaning that the metal
case becomes hot giving you quite a surprise.
As other posters suggested you have several choices:
- Stick with 2-prong sockets using only appliances that don't require
grounding (most electrical items actually don't require a ground)
- Replace 2-prong socket with GFCI
- Bring in a separate true ground wire and convert to modern 3-prong
- Bring in whole new circuit using modern cable with ground wire to
create a proper grounded outlet [This is what we have done in our
Notwithstanding all the other advice so far...but, when you mention the
"small ground wire" that suggest you may have an "old style" of Romex that
had two full-size wires for the current, and a smaller-gauge ground wire.
That would suggest your wire is 30 to 50 years old. My perspective, for
peace of mind, would be to install all new romex with a full size ground
wire, connected properly. I don't know if the older romex is "illegal" but
for peace of mind I would replace it.
Jedd Haas - Artist
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