Electric Fence Grounding

[kolneur]

Because of our dry weather I noticed my electric fences were not working very well. I soon discovered that I got shocks when I touched the ground rod. I knew right away the ground was bad. I only had a 2 foot piece of galv. pipe. so I went to buy a real rod. The guy told me I need three 8 foot rods spaced 10 ft. apart, and gave me a free booklet put out by the Dare Company. Well, OK, they do say to use three rods, but I think that's overkill. At the same time my 2 ft, pipe was way under rated. So, I will put in a real 8 foot rod, but only one. I'm sure that will help greatly.

However, here comes the question. They say to not place the fencer ground rod closer than 40 feet to the house or barn ground rods. I can not understand what the reasoning is for that? I also looked and the rod I am replacing is 18 ft from the barn ground to the breaker box. My other fencer (other barn) that rod is only about 11 feet away and that one is set in a concrete slab so it would be very hard to replace, however, it's only a foot from the water hydrant so that seems ideal since the ground is always well soaked. In order to change the one I am working on, I'd have to move the fencer to the other end of the barn, which means changing the fence and adding an outlet. Or, I'd have to run 20 ft of wire to the rod.

I dont understand why the closeness to the building (power) rod should make any difference at all. Do you?

Thanks

[dpb]

In a practical sense, no, it doesn't make any difference.

I've not read their literature so am surmising, but I suspect it's to minimize any possibility of a faulty power ground condition having any likelihood of being able to supply a continuous voltage/current to the fence.

It's normally pretty dry here in SW KS and never had any need for so much ground on the electric fences to keep them "hot". I would go w/ a sold rod instead of (particularly galvanized) pipe, and drive it certainly deeper than 2-ft. In some really dry times, have just taken the water truck over there and soaked it up -- it'll take a couple months before there's any problem again even if it doesn't rain...and we could certainly stand some -- been about six weeks now since other than a shower... :(

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[Steve Barker]

I have ONE eight foot rod driven in about 5 feet right below the charger. I can't imagine needing any more. And no, it has nothing to do with your electrical ground system.

[Steve Barker]

You all keep that rain over there if it comes this time.

[dpb]

Would love to have "you'se guys" share some...since the mid-May bout of severe weather, we've only had one good rain here...been _very_ spotty.

From about Dodge on east, not so, but west and particularly SW... :(

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[John Grabowski]

I'm thinking that since the fence ground is part of the shock circuit that it may be possible that fence charger voltage will stray into the grounding electrode system of the house or barn thereby creating a shock hazard for the occupants.

[valvejob]

Yes, I do. My fence charger generates 5,000 volts between the two terminals and I assume yours is about the same.

If you have a poor ground and a shorted hot wire, then the ground becomes -5,000 volts. If you tied that to your house ground then your house ground would be at -5,000 volts.

It may never put the full charge on the house ground but in real life it happens often enough to shock you and to kill small animals. Also happens often enough that they put warnings about it on their products.

There are lots of homes and farms that are floating many volts off the ground or neutral line because of poor grounds due to poor soil. Read recently where a dairy farmer had that problem with his 220 volt neutral and his livestock were sensing it.

[dpb]

HV, low current and interrupters besides. You can grab a direct fence charger and only get a good jolt...

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[kolneur]

That sounds about right. I have one of those voltage testers.

Yes, if it was tied directly to the house (or barn) ground, but I don't do that. It's just that the rods (fence and barn) are closer than 40 feet apart, so I cant see how that would have any effect.

I have heard and even read articles about stray voltage. However, I cant see how the power from a fencer would kill small animals. My barn cats always manage to walk under an electric fence with their tails in the air, and YEOW...... (pretty funny to see). Eventually they learn to keep their tails down.... Electric fencers are not intended to kill anything, just shock.

Now, getting shocked is another matter. I've had horses shove their water tank against a hot wire. The tank is plastic, but when a little dew gets on the sides, the horses jump when they take a drink. This caused our pony to refuse to drink and he got sick because of it. He's ok now, but I had to relocate the tank, use a different tank, and now I drive a couple pieces of 2x4 in the ground so the tank cant be shoved against the fence.

Yes, that could kill, and do all sorts of other damage to equipment. But that has nothing to do with the fencer ground.

By the way, I should mention that when my poor 2 foot ground rod got too dry, I could touch the electric fence and barely feel it. But when I touched the ground rod, I got a worse shock than I have ever gotten from the fence itself. Interestingly enough, I just dug a post hole about 24" deep not too far from that ground rod. The soil was dry all the way down. I temporarily solved the dry ground rod by letting the hose run on it for 10 minutes or so. That restored the fence operations. However, I am now going to install an 8 foot store bought ground rod I doubt it will get dry all the way to the bottom. Originally that 2' pipe was temporary, but it's one of those things that you do and forget about as long as it works.

Oh ya, we got almost 3" of rain this week..... Thank God !!!!

[Dean Hoffman]

A local mechanic says there is nothing more permanent than temporary. A second ground rod will increase the grounding capacity by about 40% if I remember right. Adding the third one doesn't help a whole lot. There is also something called an enhanced ground rod. An example here:

don't know anything about them other than there is such a thing.

Dean

[Phisherman]

I used a 3-foot rebar with a grounding connector attached for my electric fence. My (cattle) charger is solar-powered w/battery and will give you a shock to remember, even during a draught. The fence is about 300 feet long and has been working fine for 14 years. Get an inexpensive electric fence tester to see if your fence is working properly. It's my guess that one 8-foot rod will work for you. Make sure all connections are tight!

[M Q]

1) If it is close to a building ground, you will be partially electrifying your building ground. While you won't kill small animals, it probably isn't very good for electronics that rely on that ground, you will probably get noise in radios, and if the intentionally electrified portion of the fence gets connected to a good ground (maybe something falls across it), you could get a surprising jolt from your building ground that might cause you to have some dangerous accident. 2) If your ground gets very dry, part of the circuit that is supposed to be going through the animal to the ground is not going to work very well. I had an electric fence to keep deer out of an area. I found that in August and September when the ground was very dry, it would not work very well. Watering the ground near the fence helped a lot. 3) You didn't say what the fence posts are made of or whether you had a ground wire run along the fence. If the posts are metal, running a ground along the posts goes a good ways to establishing a useful ground for the fence charger.

[Jim]

[....]

excellent! good job on thanking God. He is The Father and the true provider. to believe in His Word is to receive from Him.

[Rudy Canoza]

You stupid superstitious f*ck.

[Peter Huebner]

Yes. The pulses from the earth rod can feed back into earth pegs that are being used by domestic switchboards and telephone lines - this would lead to your radio clicking, your stereo, your telephone, possibly disrupt your internet connection. My neighbour, who is on the same transformer as I , once foolishly used the mains switchboard earth peg in his dairy shed for the fence unit. Even my electric kettle was clicking and ticking away when I plugged it in. It also damaged my stereo amp.

so, there is your explanation. -P.

[<nni/gilmer]

I "buy" that. The "earthing" system is only supposed to "see" fault currents. In "normal" circumstances, no current flows in you grounding system.

In most areas, the ground and neutral are bonded together at the service panel and/or the meter base.

IF that&#39;s the situation where you live then MAYBE I can see him having the problems you describe but I just don&#39;t understand how so much electrical "crap" gets into your house.

[<nni/gilmer]

"Several" amps?

First, most heavy loads are 240 volts and for these loans there is no neutral current. The 120 volt loads partly cancel. MAYBE you might get a net neutral current of 30 amps.

That 30 amps of neutral current is traveling over wires rated to carry 100 or 200 amps (depending upon service). The voltage drop between "pole pig" and service entrance on the neutral might be a volt or two but likely a fraction of a volt.

That voltage difference is what would be driving current through the "ground connection." Let&#39;s say there is 25 ohms resistance. Even 3 or 4 volts could drive only a fraction of one amp.

[Matthew Beasley]

That all depends upon how the utility has connected the primary of the distribution transformer. In the US, it&#39;s quite common for on connection on the transformer primary to be connected to a grounded neutral. If that&#39;s the case, several amps will flow through the ground connection under normal circumstances.

[Matthew Beasley]

_PRIMARY_ return current. Thousands to tens of thousands of volts to drive the ground current plus many ohms of resistance in the neutral wire back to the substation many miles away.

[Peter Huebner]

Aw jeez, I wrote a lenghty reply and then the connection to the newsserver crashed - I saved the message but now it&#39;s gone . Sorry, once was enough ...

-P.