On Monday, June 9, 2014 9:39:18 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
plus as a example for a momentlets take this to a extreme....
how much electric would it take to keep the water hot in a vacuumn bottle.???
amost none. so insulation might help a lot, saving most of the energy you want to save by turning one water heater off, while still having the capacity
On Monday, June 9, 2014 9:52:44 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
Another way of looking at it, compare it to an attic. In winter, the
attic could be 20F, while the heated air below is 70F. That's a 50F
temp delta and the sound science says having 12" of insulation makes a
substantial difference versus 4" of insulation. With a WH set at 130F,
sitting in a basement that's 55F, you have an 75F temp delta, 50% higher
than the attic example. That means you're going to have a roughly 50%
greater driving force to move heat out of the tank. IDK how much insulation
is in a WH, but I doubt it's even 4" thick. And IDK how much difference
it would actually make, but I woulnd't be surprised for it to have a
reasonable payback and for it to be worthwhile.
Sorry for the delay. You've probably moved on by now, but for the record
these heaters are from:
Model # ES652S0RT0W
240 VAC, Single Phase
Upper Watts: 0
Lower Watts: 5500
Total Watts: 5500
Capacity: 50 gallon
So now, 6 months after closing the inlet valve on one heater and unplugging
it from its receptacle, all has been well. We've had guests stay with us on
multiple occasions and there have been no issues with running out of hot
water. I would have to say that a single 50-gal heater seems to be perfectly
sufficient for our needs. I do plan to switch over to the disabled heater at
some point, possibly on a yearly basis.
Are the heaters in parallel? Sounds like it if you can shut off the
inlet on either one and still have water flowing.
I'm thinking that if I were in your shoes and decided to keep both in
the system and yet only use one at any given time, I would plumb them in
series with a reversible bypass of some sort. Maybe I can clarify a bit
with a verbal diagram.
In position "1" Water heater "A" is turned off (electrically) and water
from the main (or water softener) flows into it (making it an old
fashioned tempering tank) and then flows on to Water heater "B" which is
active electrically and actually heats the water.
When you "switch over" annually or semi-annually, their functions are
are reversed and "B" becomes the tempering tank and "A" is the water heater.
With the arrangement that you are apparently using - a parallel setup
allowing for one heater to be completely shut down from both the
electrical system and the plumbing system, I'd be a bit concerned about
bacterial growth, etc. in the "off line" heater.
Does that make sense?
However you arrange valves to go down to one heater, I would definitely switch between them at least every six months, and probably drain the unused one as soon as it was off-line to get the sludge out of the bottom before it really congeals.
On Mon, 01 Dec 2014 22:16:49 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
Yes, they are in parallel.
I see what you're saying, but is bacterial growth a valid concern? The
doomsday prepper crowd has convinced me that bacterial growth isn't really
an issue when water is stored in the dark, as it would be here. I was
thinking a simple flush would be all I need to do when I switch over.
I honestly don't know if it would be a problem or not. I could ask my
daughter the biochemistry professor to get the answer for sure<g> BUT
we know that there's both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria and I'm not
sure that absence of light is going to mean much. Take a 8 oz bar if
Philly cream cheese, spit on it, place it in a sealed, black plastic
Tupperware container and put it in your t-shirt drawer for a month and
report back on your findings when you open it.<g>
Given that in my example of moving your system to a tempering tank
arrangement, I think that the question becomes moot. Same thing with
the sediment issue perhaps. Clearly it would obviate the need to flush
the water heater and lines when switching over.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 20:39:09 -0800 (PST), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
I can't drain the unused heater because its outlet pipe is connected to the
outlet pipe of the other heater. Each heater has a valve on its respective
inlet pipe, but no valve on the outlet pipes, so if I open the drain valve
on either heater, the other heater will simply (try to) reverse fill it
Besides, "sludge" and "congeal" don't really describe the hard water
sediment, do they? Without actually having water flow through, and without
the heating cycle, I wasn't expecting new sediment to be an issue.
On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 1:56:35 AM UTC-5, Jim Joyce wrote:
It would not refill, you could drain it, if you just shut off the incoming
cold water. But I agree, I'm not sure that I'd worry about draining it
because of worrying about bacteria growth. Especially if you're not using
the hot water for drinking, and/or as you suggested, flush it for awhile
when returning it to service.
I have some experience with a similar situation here. A friend has a house
with two tanks, gas, shut one down like you did, left it full of water.
Only negative was after not using it for a few years, went to put it back
in service before Hurricane Sandy. It would not fire. Upon inspection,
there was some rust debris visible that had fallen down into the pilot
light area. Probably just needed a vacuuming to solve that, but IDK for
sure what was later done to it. With electric, you don't have that issue.
They are interlocked by the top thermostat so they only come on one at
The top one starts the process by energizing the top element and when
the top thermostat is satisfied, it switches to the bottom element and
If the bottom element went bad, the only indication would be you ran
out of hot water sooner than normal. If the top one goes bad, you
don't get any hot water because you never satisfy the top thermostat.
On 12/2/2014 1:06 AM, email@example.com wrote:
Read the OP's specs again. There is no upper element and, therefore,
there is no upper thermostat.
I am not sure your statement is entirely correct if the electric water
heater is dual element (as most are). Isn't the so-called "quick
recovery" mode/feature a function of both elements heating the water
simultaneously when demand is great?
On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 8:11:00 AM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
I don't think both are on at the same time with the typical residential WH.
The ones I've seen, work as gfre described. They are rated at say 4500W
and have two elements that size. Only one comes on at a time. That reduces
the circuit ampacity required. As temp goes down, the bottom comes on
first. If the upper level water gets cool enough, then it switches the
bottom off and the top on, to provide more heating to the water that is
going to be drawn first.
Why the OP's WH only has a bottom element, IDK. That isn't typical and
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 07:10:58 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
The only thing "quicker" about the quick recovery is the top element
is only heating the water at the top. You only have one on at a time.
These are on a 30a breaker and one 5500w element draws over 22 amps by
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 02:06:53 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Thanks, but that's completely wrong in this case.
Each water heater is completely standalone. Within each heater unit, there
is a bottom thermostat connected to a bottom heating element. Where the
upper thermostat would be, there are mounting holes but no thermostat.
Likewise, where the upper heating element would be, there is only a dummy
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:21:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
It's not as if I selected it myself. <g> The home builder decided that twin
50-gal heaters would be nice, and he apparently selected this model that has
a single element. Perhaps he bought in quantity and got a deal.
If I really had to, I could make this a 5 bedroom house, meaning there could
potentially be what, about 10 people living here in 3000 square feet,
sharing 3 bathrooms? Fully populated like that, maybe dual 50-gal heaters
make sense, but there are only two of us here, not counting occasional
guests, so a total of 100 gallons of hot water seems excessive.
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