Water is way too soft.. what to do?

[driggs]

I just moved in to my first home and I am getting lots of cokmplaints from my girlfriend regrading the shower water. I dislike the slipperiness too. I have read a bunch of other posts but still am left with questions. From what I understand (and I am new to this) softwater is a good thing for my plumbing. I am glad to have softwater for that reason. What I am wondering is: Is there a way to soften it less? Slower dissolving salt? Some sort of regulation of the softening equipment? ...and if there is a way to soften it less, am I causing problems in the long run?

One last thing, not only is the slimey feeling there after a shower but after my girlfriend blow-drys her hair (10 mins worth of blowdrying), her hair still looks wet or like she put gel in it or something.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Chris Lewis]

According to :

Turn off the water softener for several days (it should be installed with a bypass valve so that you can completely take it out of the circuit), and then get your water tested for hardness. Get them to venture an opinion on whether it's "very hard", "moderately hard", or "not very". At the same time, decide _yourself_ which way you prefer it.

Water softening is pretty much all or nothing. The most you can do by playing with the controls is "lose softening" for a portion of the cycle.

Very hard water can be rough on electric control valves (such as dishwashers and clothes washers), and greatly decrease the effectiveness of soap.

Most people find soft water something you need to get used to, but once you do, you'd never switch back.

[We have moderately hard water. Not enough to warrant needing a softener, _except_ for the dishwasher. But the dishwasher has a builtin softener.]

[BobK207]

Per Chris' suggestion, bypass the soften for several days to get a feel for the un-softened water in your home. You might be fine w/ the un-sfotened (hard) condtion.

short answer on how w/s works.

the small tank has resin beads that hold sodium ions (hence the need for salt re-charge; either form your big salt tank or back at the water soften company plant)

as the hard water passes thru the small tank magnesium & calcium ions are captured & replaced w/ sodium ions. Mg & Ca ions react with soap binding it up, Na (sodium) no where near as much, hence the slippery feel of un-removed soap.

one work around I have used.......... just soften the water going to the water heater, when you're done showering adjust the shower water to slightly colder & the increased amount of hard cold water will scavange the remaining soap. This way the washer, dishwasher & shower will get the benefit of soft. Plus you won't be drinking all those extra sodium ions (if you drink the tap water)

secoind way (never done thsi) maybe a water temp manual tempering valve could be used to do a partial bypass of the w/s. That way you could add some hard water back inot the soft water downstream of the water softener and ajdust it to get just the feel you want.

btw I thought slippery was good :)

cheers Bob

[SQLit]

Find the unit and use the bypass valve. Find the make and model and then get a manual. All of the softeners I have ever had that I put salt into had a method of changing the settings. They even came with a test kit.

Or call a plumber for service to the unit.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

To make it easier to understand, let's clear up the terminology. Water is either soft or hard. If it is soft, it is soft and it is not more soft or too soft. So now we know that if the water is not soft it is hard. There are, however, degrees of hardness. Sounds like you want to go from soft to some degree of hardness. I've heard your complaint from a few others as they just can't seem to get used to being really clean and not having minerals deposited on their bodies. Feels like the soap is not rinsed off because your hand slides so easily. I'm a bit surprised about your girlfriend's hair though, as mot like the feel and appearance of hair washed in soft water. Years ago, people used to save rainwater for just that reason; washing hair.

The salt is just used as a carrier to exchange ions.

You can read more here

Water softeners are specific ion exchangers that are designed to remove ions, which are positively charged. Softeners mainly remove calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) ions. Calcium and magnesium are often referred to as 'hardness minerals'. Softeners are sometimes even applied to remove iron. The softening devices are able to remove up to five milligrams per litre (5 mg/L) of dissolved iron. Softeners can operate automatic, semi-automatic, or manual. Each type is rated on the amount of hardness it can remove before regeneration is necessary.

A water softener collects hardness minerals within its conditioning tank and from time to time flushes them away to drain. Ion exchangers are often used for water softening. When an ion exchanger is applied for water softening, it will replace the calcium and magnesium ions in the water with other ions, for instance sodium or potassium. The exchanger ions are added to the ion exchanger reservoir as sodium and potassium salts (NaCl and KCl).

[maradcliff]

I have extremely hard water. It pegged the color strip test. But I have the best tasting water around. I would not change it for nothing. I just have to use a little extra detergent in the washer, but considering the cost of water softening, I'll spend a couple extra bucks a year for detergent. If I was to soften, it would only be for the washing machine. I refuse to drink soft water. All that salt is not good for ones body.

As to the OP. Open the bypass and see if you like the natural water better. Maybe you will, and you'll save money too. You can always rig a 3rd faucet onto your kitchen sink, make that the hard water for drinking purposes. It's much healthier. I'd also be sure your outside spigots are unsoftened. No sense softening water for the lawn or garden, and never put softened water in your car radiator The salt will kill it.

Mark

[jtnospam]

You might get a better "feel" from the water if you recharge with potassium chloride rather than sodium chloride. It is a little less soluble than sodium, and more environmentally friendly on the discharge. It is, however, more expensive.-Jitney

[Brian]

Hmm, most places soften either hot water only, or cold water everywhere

but kitchen and outside faucets.

Unless you taste water from toilets, bathrooms - why do you care?

To original posted:

Try increase regeneration cycle to 7 days.

[driggs]

Much thanks to all of you. I am tryig to get in contact with the builder for manuals. I will also look for manuals on-line (once I get home and get the make/model of the equipment). After reading all your responses, I may try to "get used to" the soft water as I see it as a benefit now. I do not drink the water so the salt content is not an issue. The womans hair is definately greasy though. I am going to give the water system a good cleaning to make sure there is nothing else in the water that would cause that to happen. She did try to rinse her hair this morning with a bottle or store bought water and her hair was NOT greasy. I will post the outcome after some manual reading. Thanks again!

[nospambob]

[Chris Lewis]

According to :

It's most people's experience that while the water feels more slippery, cleaning with soap is more effective with soft water than hard. Your experience seems to be the exact opposite.

As another experiment, get her to try a different shampoo - especially one that's a bit more natural soap based not-quite-so-exotic. As one to try, try Johnson's baby shampoo, and see if it works any better. If it does, it may be something odd about the shampoo she was previously using, and she just needs to look around for something different.

[maradcliff]

I have seen lots of places that soften ALL the water. I have a friend that has several draft horses and had a HUGE softner installed, so he can supply these horses with soft water, going to his yard hydrant. I asked him if he's nuts!!! He insists his horses do not like hard water. I just shook my head and laughed..... (He's a great guy, but a little strange)...

[Borax]

Here is a technique that I find works quite well. Go to the hardware store and purchase a little plastic tray with rectangular chambers in it. It will loof similar to a muffin tin, but the holes will be rectangular (in a pinch a muffin tin can be substituted).

Take this device and add your "too soft" water to it. Carefully place the device in the freezer for 1-2 hours (your time may vary). When removed you will be amazed at how much harder your water will have become.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I took your advice and wow, the water sure was much harder. I now have a new problem. I was not feeling well and took a couple of aspirin with a glass of the now hard water. It was more difficult to swallow and hurt as each lump wend down my throat. Nest, I wanted to wash my hair. It did not suds up as well and I have welts on my scalp from when my wife dumped a bucket of the hard water on my head to rinse.

What am I doing wrong?

[Gary Slusser]

You're paying way more than just the cost of "a couple extra bucks... for detergents"! A 1/16" of scale on an electric water heater element can cost you up to 27% of every dollar you spend to heat water. In gas and oil fired heaters, it's up to 33% of every dollar. AND, there are many other hidden costs you aren't aware of, like everything you launder in hard water wears out faster, water using appliances and plumbing valves fail quicker etc..

If you'll check the label on your loaf of white bread, you should see about 120-150 mg of sodium per slice. A glass of skim milk is said to have 530 mg of sodium. The sodium added by a water softener is 7.85 mg/l, roughly a quart, per grain per gallon of exchange. I.E. 12 gpg hard water = 7.85*12 is 94.2 mg of added sodium per roughly a quart. So eat a sandwich less or drink less skim milk or give up a pretzel or potato chip and get on with life

And not softening all the water in the house may be okay, although IMO it's a dumb idea, but if there's iron and/or manganese in the water, who wants rust stains in their toilets and kitchen sink? The vast majority of softeners soften all the water to all fixtures in the house/building. That's the right way of doing it because then you get the benefits of softened water everywhere.

Water is either soft(ened) or hard. It can not be "too soft"; it's either got one or more gpg of hardness in it or 0 gpg of hardness in it; speaking strictly of residential waters, commercial/industrial waters in many cases require less then 17.1 ppm/mg/l (1 gpg).

Some people, although very few, add some hard water back into the softened water rather than get used to their skin's natural oils making them feel slippery while they shower in softened water.

The use of potassium or sodium chloride makes no difference in the softness of the water UNLESS the softener is leaking hardness because of the use of potassium chloride. In many cases you need a higher salt dose than sodium chloride requires; from 12% to 30% for high efficiency salt doses. Gary Quality Water Associates

[Gary Slusser]

Adjusting the salt dose adjusts the capacity (K grains) of the softener which establishes the regeneration schedule; number of gallons or number of days between regenerations BUT, not the 'softness' of the water between regenerations.

And I'm sorry but, most plumbers (and well drillers), although they should, don't know much about servicing softeners or other water treatment equipment other than that they are installed in the cold water line.... So only call a plumber, or well driller, that knows the equipment or call a water treatment dealer.

Gary Quality Water Associates

[BobK207]

Gary-

Please explain

"You're paying way more than just the cost of "a couple extra bucks... for detergents"! A 1/16" of scale on an electric water heater element can cost you up to 27% of every dollar you spend to heat water.""""

the electric element is inside the tank, where does the heat generated by the element go if not into the water????

"In gas and oil fired heaters, it's up to 33% of every dollar.""

in this type of water heater scale on the inside of the tank will effect heat transfer from the flue gas to the water but doesn't most of the scale just drop to the bottom of the heater to be flushed out (if one does that)

I just recently cut open an water heater installed in a very hard water area, the scale depsoits (loose like sand) was about 6" deep

the "scale" on the side wall wal no thicker than paint a few thou at most

cheers \\Bob

[MsSteffi]

replying to Borax, MsSteffi wrote: LOL -

[thekmanrocks]

Chris Lewis:

Here in New England our water runs too soft for most pool pumps, so a bucket of Hardness Up is required every season here.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Have to wonder what the original post was and how long ago. .

There is no such thing as too soft. It is either soft or hard, but there are degrees of hardness.