I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.
You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.
I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. Aside from
dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure
actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to
give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. Pat just made
another guess as to the exact area. Like Steve, I can tell you a
truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea.
On May 16, 7:37 am, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! Sorry,
I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. Assuming
that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going
to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of
the difference between a wet and dry lawn.
And that is where the whole argument and analysis is wrong. Just
because the tire is inflated to 30 PSI internally, does not mean there
is 30 PSI applied to the contact area of the tire. I take a spare
tire that's inflated to 30 psi and simply place it upright on the
floor. According to your analysis, there is 30 PSI pressing against
the floor across the contact area. Now I inflate it to 40PSI.
According to your analysis, the contact area just got drastically
smaller and the floor is now supporting 40PSI. But of course, we
know that just isn't so. A tire inflated to 30 lbs, weighs what?
About 30lbs or so? Meaning if your analysis was correct, the tire
would have a contact area of a mere 1 square inch.
In your example, each square inch of tire is actually holding whatever
the total weight of the car is divided by the total contact area.
Clearly that has some relationship to the pressure in the tire, but
it's not simply equal to the internal tire pressure.
Hey everyone - just to close the loop for anyone searching in the
future, here is the rest of the story: I was actually hoping the
crushed stone would arrive before the forklift - and I would just find
a way to get it onto a tarp on a pallet or two...but the forklift came
first. He walked on the ground and assessed it to be okay...the
wettest spot was on my own lawn - and he did leave a couple ruts about
2-3" deep...but didn't tear the lawn up at all. And that was a
7,000lb forklift and a 1.5ton load. When the dump truck came - his
rig is a 26,000lb truck, with another 10,000 of material and he
wouldn't even attempt it. He said that the 1" plywood would do
absolutely nothing except get pulverized. He dumped on a tarp on the
lawn and we moved by hand - took about 80 trips with the wheelbarrow
less than heaping. My back is definitely sore today. Thanks again.
It's only three and half yards of gravel. If OP buys a wheelbarrow, only
loads it halfway, and spreads the work out over a week, it's not that big of
If it is too much for the OP to handle on his own, school is almost out, and
there are a lot of young guys and burley girls running around who would LOVE
to make fifty bucks for a half day's work. Tell them they make ten bucks an
hour, and if it takes them less than five hours they get the whole fifty.
Generally speaking truckers take no responsibility for your lawn. I once
paid more for cleanup than for the cement that was delivered. I live in
the Princeton NJ area, and it looks like you might too. Due to the
recent rain the ground here will be wet here for at least another month.
I'd put off the delivery until the ground was dry. Failing that I'd have
the truck only enter my yard on temporary roadway...something like large
boards (to distribute the load).
If you can't do either then perhaps you could hire a small lawn
maintenance/landscaping company to move the stone by wheelbarrow (on
boards) across your lawn. It should be only about 75 wheelbarrow trips.
Because of their smaller tires, small trucks can actually do more damage
than larger trucks.
EJ in NJ
Yes ruts. But filling them in and letting the grass grow back over
next couple of months may be a small price to pay!
It's only a bit of soil and some grass after all! Grass is expendable
and regrowable; in fact some horticulturists suggest that grass is a
waste of time, effort etc. and recommend seeding with clover instead.
Clover puts nutrients back into the soil and needs less cutting.
Trying to move tons of crushed stone by hand/wheelbbarrow etc. is
Putting down some old pieces of plywood etc. might help spread the
weght of truck tyres.
Buying crushed stone to be delived by a 'Stone Slinger' truck would
presumably be more costly?
Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards,
taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out
probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might
need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be
sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and
while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their
lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit.
All I can say is that using the plywood will help. Unfortunately there
are just too many unknowns to make a firm statement. Most likely it will
be OK. The only acid test I know is to watch carefully as the truck
moves over the boards. If problems develop send the truck back and dump
the load for moving manually.
If your soil is like my "Princeton Shale" it is like soup when wet, but
it sets up like concrete when dry. When it is dry you can bounce bowling
balls off it. This is why I think you may be wise to wait till the soil
I'd be very careful about the neighbors lawn..these things have habit of
becoming nasty when things go wrong.
EJ in Montgomery
Thank you again for all the replies. The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe
that). And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should
any occur. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see
what happens. Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell
of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow.
And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it
pretty much to sacrifice. Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of
concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty
forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to
a full truck. thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. Jus curious
- anyone know approx how many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move
5 tons of crushed stone anyway?
I think you may have more of a problem with the wheel loading from the
forklift truck than the stone delivery truck. Nonetheless I think 1 inch
of plywood will handle it.
A wheelbarrow will hold about 1 cubic foot. A cubic foot of stone
weighs about 150 pounds. 10000 lbs divided by 150 lbs/wheelbarrow gives
us about 65 loads. I had estimated about 75 in an earlier post.
EJ in NJ
On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:20:19 -0700 (PDT), email@example.com
5 tons of stone is about 2 1/2 yards. You can move it in about 30-35
wheelbarrow loads but that is still tough on the grass.. Since you
already have the spider coming to move the pavers, see if you can get
the stone delivered in 1 yard bags that the spider can handle.
(Similar to the .3 yard ones they sell bulk stone in at Lowes) .
I'd be nervous about the truck right after rain and, especially crossing
the neighbor's property. Have you checked with the delivery service,
since they drive the truck? They might carry 2" lumber for the express
purpose. Crossing any septic systems or other costly stuff?
On May 15, 1:20 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I don't, and more importantly, you shouldn't either. You really,
really don't want to use the neighbors property for access. If the
damage to her lawn is not exactly what she imagines - Murphy's Law
being what it is - she won't be pleased. If you are on good terms
with the neighbor, keep it that way and find a better option.
That's where the issue comes in. Your idea of best and hers will
almost assuredly vary.
You are blowing this thing _way_ out of proportion and focusing on the
wrong things. You should have mentioned the forklift in your first
post as well. You are making it difficult to help you by giving
information in dribs and drabs. Depending on what type of forklift
the guy uses, it can damage your lawn as much if not more than the
truck would. The piggy-back forklifts can weigh three or four tons on
their own, and that rear rotating wheel can dig a nice hole for you.
You have to move some stuff and some weight, but it's not all that
much stuff and not all that much weight. Crushed stone is around 100
pounds per cubic foot. A high school kid can move 200 or 250 pounds
per load, a day labor closer to twice that with the appropriate
wheelbarrow. A couple of high school kids and a couple of
wheelbarrows would have the stuff moved in a day. A day labor would
move the stuff by himself in a day. The wheelbarrow will not be
damage-free for the lawn either, but the 1/2" OSB will be fine for
So your decsion is if it's worth a hundred or a hundred and a half to
hire someone to move the stuff for you, or are you relations with your
neighbor and both of your lawns not worth that much to you. To me it
seems to be a no-brainer.
Someone posted about just filling in the ruts. That doesn't work very
well. That compacted soil will not stay compacted forever without a
load on it. If you add a couple or three inches of dirt to fill it
in, eventually the compacted soil will rise up a bit and you'll have a
couple of humps running down the lawn. Someone else mentioned a This
Old House episode - that's the right way to fix the ruts, but it's
better to avoid the ruts in the first place. If, as someone else
posted, you have that Princeton soil or whatever that gets rock hard
when it's dry, then obviously you should just wait until it's dry.
Personally I would GUESS it would turn 1/2" into splinters...especially
if soil was not hard.
Not good. Whole 'nother story.
until they see what actually results. Did you overtly tell them ruts will
occur? Did they specifically say if they do occur you have to do nothing
to restore it? If anything under neighbors lawn can be/is damaged, what
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