We never ever started an investigation based on an anonymous complaint. We would take the complaint, but never act on it until we could convince the person to go on record. The health department, as a civil code enforcer, is subject to liabilities if it can be demonstrated by an individual under investigation that we were randomly looking for someone to cite. A complaint that is 'anonymous' does not provide a judge the evidence needed to protect the agency from this kind of liability. The only way to be insulated from that type of accusation is to have the ability to produce the complainant.
Police deal with criminal violations, not civil.
The complaint may be taken, but I highly doubt that an anonymous complaint would translate into an active investigation. Civil infractions work on a whole different standard than criminal infractions. A health district lacks the ability to do things like tresspass onto private property to look in a backyard for dog crap. If we needed to investigate a valid complaint -- again which requires an identity -- we would have to have to send the complaint through the prosecutor's office to arrange for the police to accompany us. The police had the authority for entering property, we didn't.
And that will get an agency sued by a home owner hiring even the dumbest contingency lawyer out there. Agency trespass, harassment, fabrications to initiate an 'investigation'. I've been there, done that, and bought the souvenier postcard to send home to mama.
1) I go sometimes to a neighborhood where no one has ever even been rude to me, but it is still a n'hood that is somewhat poor and where most would say I have a higher than average chance of being mugged.
Being a man, I have fantasies that I will either see an armed robbery and knock the guy over with my car, or on really fantastic nights, that I will overpower the mugger. Bear in mind that I'm 60, have never been in a fight, and I'm overweight and not even in good shape these days. But I can dream, can't I?
But after I hurt the muggers, then comes the problem. The police show up, and I don't want to tell them my name or address because I'm afraid of retaliation, either for its own sake or because I'm going to be a witness at their trial. I want to give them an address where they can reach me, but I can't give them a friend's because that will endanger the friend. I think about lying outright and then correcting it in a day or two, after the newspaper articles have all been printed
-- I fantasize that this is a big enough event that it makes the news
-- muggee defends himself -- but only for one day -- and I can't help thinking that even if they don't get mad at me for lying, it will ruin my credibility before the jury.
I have a unique name in this city, and I have my name but not my address in the phone, mostly so friends won't drop by without calling, and for decades, including after the web existed and 411.com etc. I couldn't be found, but a few years ago, an obnoxious webpage using utility records or driver's license records or something that they must have bribed an employee to get, or worse yet the utility or DMV sold me out, now one who tries well enough can find my address.
So I"ve been meaning to learn more about this but haven't yet. I've been going to this n'hood occasionally for 20 plus years and at least twice a week for two years, and like I say, no one has ever said a rude word to me or given me a hostile glance. And some people are quite friendly.
2) Most of what I have in this post that is phrased as affirmative statments, as opposed to questions, is from what I've learned in the past, but I have a personal interest in this too. I have a neigbhbor with a slightly smaller than average pit bull and the entire family routinely walks it with no leash. Once in a while they leave it outside alone with no leash.
I've complained to her once or twice, and I've also called animal control, and was disapointed to find out that she was right, that in this county, she can leave the dog unleashed as long as it is on her property, even though she has no fence, and even though her front yard is about 25 by 25 feet. I've seen the dog leave the property also, and seen another dog on a leash bark at it, and once when I was walking my visiting 11-year-old dog, I was only 40 feet away when I saw it was outside without a leash and I yelled at the person to take it inside, but she was typicall unconcerned and only did so slowly.
It turns out if one complains, they come out and look at the dog and then walk over to the complainer and talk to him or put something in the mailbox. I don't want the neighbor to know I'm the complainer, and the woman on the phone said if I ask them not to come to my house, they'll write me instead. I'm sure I can count on that, NOT.
There are at least half a dozen neighbors who don't like this dog and who want to have the n'hood fine them (which we may not have the authority to do no matter how bad they are, but they've gotten away with stuff like this in the past, on n'bors who don't know much.)
But unless one of us starts carrying a camera, I don't think the county will be much help. Even if they fine them once, that won't discourage these people. And one son can be nice, lending me his lawn mower when I couldn't get mine to start. Although he also walks the dog a lot. He's one half step better than the rest, in that he carries the leash even though he never puts it on. Maybe when the dog has its jaws clamped on a little girls arm, he'll put the leash on. I think next time I'll ask him why he never puts it on. They say it plays with kids and isn't hostile, but that's usually the case before something bad happens.
What's interesting is that these n'bors live in what I call the haunted house here. Every person or family in this house since it was built has had something wrong with them. One couple were just selfish and got divorced, and in another case, the man left her with no money even to buy food and the doorknob so looose on the door you could see in to the house through a half-inch opening.
And this family who for years never said hello to me even when I said hello to them. Who I once had a bunch of Bazooka bubble gum and would give a piece to their 6 year old girl and her friends if they were there, for 150 pieces, and when I eventually ran out of gum and told them I had no more, the little girl never said a word to me again.
And finally I was told there was a murder in this house before I got here. That's probably why all the owners who have followed have been sorry cases. grin.
I filed many "disclosures" to Seattle animal control over a period of years about a neighbor's barking dogs. She had to go to court a few times for resulting tickets. She apparently always managed to talk them out of the tickets, apparently by claiming that I was out to get her for unknown reasons. (I really just wanted to sleep) I was never given an opportunity to show up and testify, despite my requests. Apparently the local law makes that entirely up to the "defendent". The problem was finally resolved when she found a new boyfriend and moved in with him. Even the deaths of several neighbors cats was insufficient to motivate animal control to solve the problem.
If you are calling an 800 number, or 877 etc. you cannot defeat caller-id. Not just the police but anyone I think. Except I don't know about residential 800 numbers that ring in one's regular phone line. The kind of thing parents have for their kids to call home on.
The phone book description of Defeat Caller-id doesn't get into this I think.
To continue; For most purposes, I wouldn't worry that the police will know my number via caller id. It doesn't prove it was I who called. Although the tape recording might. :)
For something where I really had to have anonymity, like informing on the mob or even the n'hood killer (if we had one), I would call from a payphone.
I wouldn't assume the rules are the same where Bugg lives as where and Norminn lives.
So far we still live in country where state laws vary, despite attempts by both Dems and Reps, especially this administration, to interfere with state's rights. Of course the Dems started by trying to end racial discrimination in travel, voting, housing, employment, and the Reps don't want states to have stronger environmental laws, etc. than the feds do.
I suppose that depends on whether they want to solve the problem. If I had gone to court and been told that I was out-of-line, I would have quit complaining, so if she really thought she was in the right, it could have helped.
:I would ask him once to clean it up. If he did not do so then I would :put on my rubber boots and gas mask and go out there and do it :myself. Then I would make a point of letting dipshit know that I had :to do it. Give him a call or visit as you are going out to do it. :Put the dogshit on his curb on trash day and put a big sign on it that :says DOG SHIT. This dude may get it or not. Though the solution is :unpleasant, it beats the alternative. : :The alternative is calling the authorities. As far as I am concerned, :you never call the authorities on your neighbor, very dangerous. That :guy knows where you live. What do you really know about him and what :he is capable of?? If the authorities approach him about his yard he :will know it was you that went behind his back when you could have :asked nicely or done it your self or both.
I see the smarts in this but am fearful of jumping the fence and doing the job myself. If we shared the yard, that would be another matter. I don't know what this guy is capable of but he hasn't come off to me as heavy so far. I know just about nothing about him, however. In any case, I don't think that most people think it's acceptable to just go onto another person's property and do ANYTHING. Well, certainly there are exceptions to that and we can all think of some, I'm sure, but cleaning up his dog's poop wouldn't, I think, be included.
Yesterday I decided that I really do have to take action. I've been doing a lot of work in my yard, and even 40 feet or so from my back fence, the smell was very annoying at times. I am sure that it had to do with the fact that the air was pretty still at the time. Even so, it was so bad that I realized that the situation is intolerable. I looked over the fence a few times, but as usual he wasn't around. I haven't been seeing his dogs back there, either. I think they are grossed out by their shit-area and avoid it when they aren't s*****ng.
If I don't encounter him, I may take the direct approach and knock on his door. Of course, I could always send him a letter, but I'd rather talk to him directly, although I haven't imagined yet just what I'm going to say and how I'll say it. Sometimes I guess it's OK to just speak your mind and see what comes out of your mouth! I was prepared to do that yesterday, but didn't see him in his yard over his fence.
Or perhaps you see the folly of the advice that you tresspass, because the owner of the property may do something evil if you turn to authorities. Pretty contradictory if you ask me...
Folks will run around crying like chickens that you'll be boiled alive if you talk to anyone or call the proper authorities, but really, the sensible way to go is:
Try to get a feel for how reasonable the person is, if you perhaps should skip to step #2. Ask other neighbors if they have any dealings with him.
TALK to the neighbor. Believe it or not, he may not really realize how it's affecting others. I've seen people respond positively to stuff that I wouldn't expect. People I wouldn't expect to. But good stuff often happens when you talk with your neighbors. Have him over for a beer. Besides, if you do need to go to authorities (step #2), the first thing you'll be asked will be: "Well, have you tried talking to your neighbor?"
Pretty good likelihood you won't need to go further.. but if you do have to:
Go to the town/city and ask what ordinances are applicable and where this lies. It most likely falls under the "dog" statutes having to do with keeping dogs such that they do not have large impacts on neighbors. Could even be health, probably a nuisance problem. May even be an issue for the local SPCA. Then call the applicable authority. They may be sympathetic to taking a look at it themselves so as to not make it an actual complaint from you.
Stand by your actions if you need to go to authorities. IF he confronts you or even another neighbor brings it up, say - There was a problem; it had to be dealt with. Rinse lather repeat as necessary.
It's unlikely the situation will escalate. But you have a problem now that's really making it hard for you to enjoy your property, right? Therefore, less to lose by trying.
:>On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:08:06 -0000, Lawrence :>wrote: :>
:>:I would ask him once to clean it up. If he did not do so then I would :>:put on my rubber boots and gas mask and go out there and do it :>:myself. Then I would make a point of letting dipshit know that I had :>:to do it. Give him a call or visit as you are going out to do it. :>:Put the dogshit on his curb on trash day and put a big sign on it that :>:says DOG SHIT. This dude may get it or not. Though the solution is :>:unpleasant, it beats the alternative. :>: :>:The alternative is calling the authorities. As far as I am concerned, :>:you never call the authorities on your neighbor, very dangerous. That :>:guy knows where you live. What do you really know about him and what :>:he is capable of?? If the authorities approach him about his yard he :>:will know it was you that went behind his back when you could have :>:asked nicely or done it your self or both. :>
:>I see the smarts in this but am fearful of jumping the fence and doing :>the job myself. : :Or perhaps you see the folly of the advice that you tresspass, because the owner :of the property may do something evil if you turn to authorities. Pretty :contradictory if you ask me...
Yes, "folly" is a strong word, and I was trying to be diplomatic and not aggravate a poster and so I paid a compliment instead. :) : :>If we shared the yard, that would be another matter. I :>don't know what this guy is capable of but he hasn't come off to me as :>heavy so far. I know just about nothing about him, however. In any case, :>I don't think that most people think it's acceptable to just go onto :>another person's property and do ANYTHING. Well, certainly there are :>exceptions to that and we can all think of some, I'm sure, but cleaning :>up his dog's poop wouldn't, I think, be included. :>
:>Yesterday I decided that I really do have to take action. I've been :>doing a lot of work in my yard, and even 40 feet or so from my back :>fence, the smell was very annoying at times. I am sure that it had to do :>with the fact that the air was pretty still at the time. Even so, it was :>so bad that I realized that the situation is intolerable. I looked over :>the fence a few times, but as usual he wasn't around. I haven't been :>seeing his dogs back there, either. I think they are grossed out by :>their shit-area and avoid it when they aren't s*****ng. :>
:>If I don't encounter him, I may take the direct approach and knock on :>his door. Of course, I could always send him a letter, but I'd rather :>talk to him directly, although I haven't imagined yet just what I'm :>going to say and how I'll say it. Sometimes I guess it's OK to just :>speak your mind and see what comes out of your mouth! I was prepared to :>do that yesterday, but didn't see him in his yard over his fence. :>
: :Folks will run around crying like chickens that you'll be boiled alive if you :talk to anyone or call the proper authorities, but really, the sensible way to :go is: : :0. Try to get a feel for how reasonable the person is, if you perhaps should :skip to step #2. Ask other neighbors if they have any dealings with him.
The guy's not a complete mystery to me, but I know only what I've seen and heard over the fence. A year ago I had to have all my neighbors sign a petition so I could get a city use permit approved, and he was one front door I knocked on. Interestingly, around 3-4 years ago (?) he had a party in his back yard, AFAIK no others have occurred. The attendies seemed like nice folks and all kinds. Friends, relatives, colleagues, I don't know, maybe the lot. Certainly, he wouldn't dream of having another such party without cleaning up his yard. Indeed, I wouldn't dream of having a garden party without him cleaning up his yard! I'm sure some of the rest of the neighborhood is affected including the folks just east of me, but being youngish renters they are too timid to complain.
The guy has a flag in front of his house, not an American flag but one with a peace symbol on it and a color combination I'm not familiar with. He doesn't seem like a peacenik, but who knows? Anyway, that would seem to be a good sign that he's into communication and getting along. Obviously, he has a problem, though. : :1. TALK to the neighbor. Believe it or not, he may not really realize how it's :affecting others. I've seen people respond positively to stuff that I wouldn't :expect. People I wouldn't expect to. But good stuff often happens when you talk :with your neighbors. Have him over for a beer. Besides, if you do need to go to :authorities (step #2), the first thing you'll be asked will be: "Well, have you :tried talking to your neighbor?" : :Pretty good likelihood you won't need to go further..
I agree. It just hasn't happened yet. Thanks.
:but if you do have to: : :2. Go to the town/city and ask what ordinances are applicable and where this :lies. It most likely falls under the "dog" statutes having to do with keeping :dogs such that they do not have large impacts on neighbors. Could even be :health, probably a nuisance problem. May even be an issue for the local SPCA. :Then call the applicable authority. They may be sympathetic to taking a look at :it themselves so as to not make it an actual complaint from you. : :3. Stand by your actions if you need to go to authorities. IF he confronts you :or even another neighbor brings it up, say - There was a problem; it had to be :dealt with. Rinse lather repeat as necessary. : :It's unlikely the situation will escalate. But you have a problem now that's :really making it hard for you to enjoy your property, right? Therefore, less to :lose by trying. : :Cheers, :Banty
I will try. I'm not losing sleep on this, it's just I'm wanting to run into him rather than knock, but I may just say screw it, I'm knocking on his door.
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