absolutely correct in almost all applications including large commercial applications.
In industrial and marine applications and of course with electronics the practice is common and on corrosive environments, necessary.
here are some links
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page.
formatting link
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed connections in those locations)
Not only correct but the only way to go in many cases... it seems most on the NG are house wiring guys and applying NEC as they see it in homes etc...but not of course in the industrial markets.
. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimmped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)
Correct...you do not solder wire before it goes into a crimped connector...but you do after it goes into a solder socket connector and there are crimped connectors made to be soldered as well of course.
. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimmped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page.
formatting link
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed connections in those locations)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)
. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimmped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page.
formatting link
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed connections in those locations)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)
well ...maybe Fuchsie is a closed mind etc... or maybe he is a romex wiring house type electrician... there are about
200 of those for everyone doing industrial contols and automation (where soldering stranded ends is pervasively common).
So...we get on the ng, this 200 to 1 ratio of insightability. Im sure Roy will respond appropriately to my posts on the topic... gentleman that he is, and realizing that the way to become an idiot is to defend ones current position...
As a consulting engineer the first thing I tell my clients is that they know more about their situation in many aspects than I do, and that I will be learning from them and formatting much or most of my recommendations based on what they know and have learned about their systems.. that works...and I am not then immune to learning myself.
. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimmped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page.
formatting link
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed connections in those locations)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)
Thats interesting... and at the least reasonably valid possibly. Id like to hear more about that.
in the controls business of course the amperage very small so thats not an issue and we can solder the ends of the wire.
The idea you present on current flow being possibly less at a soldered in connection would make a good google search.... If I find anything on that I will post it.
Here is what I have so far though. but that could and may well be all related to electronics or control circuits...
. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimmped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page.
formatting link
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed connections in those locations)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:50:22 -0800, "Phil Scott" Gave us:
What a silly thing to say.
Not true. In corrosive environments (like your marine scenario) standard non-gas tight connectors are not spec'd. If they are used, they will corrode. A gas tight connector must be used, and that too, would NOT require any solder.
The huge crimped terminal on a commercial battery cable is NOT a gsa tight termination. What does get used gets soldered because that is the only way they can give the termination SOME life span.
Yet not seen in ANY marine environment where the proper fittings are used. Most consumer level crap won't have such overtly expensive hardware in it, hence the "workaround", with solder.
If the wire warms to the melt point temperature of solder, then there is a much larger underlying problem with the circuit or the wiring design. NO circuit wiring should EVER rise to that temperature in ANY non fault mode of operation. EVER.
It is not referred to as extrusion, it is called CREEP.
The military were the inventors of the gas tight crimped connection.
If the connection is gas tight, it will be vapor and liquid tight as well. If it is not made using gas tight methods, then it is open to a host of problems. Many of which solder still does not fix or address.
It varies from product producer to product producer as some of them conform tightly to proper manufacturing specs and some do not. That doesn't make those that do not "most if not all".
None of those will be crimp style connectors. It is either a solder terminal or a crimp terminal... not both.
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:56:19 -0800, "Phil Scott" Gave us:
Nope. There are solder cup connectors that DO get soldered, and there are crimp type connectors. Find ONE crimp style connector that is meant, by design to be soldered. CITE!
Roy has some other issues going on.. some who do only houses, with romex etc are unaware of the high end issues. that seems to be his situation. With the kind of approach Roy shows to life he wouldnt do well in the high end markets... if he cleaned that up though and studies some, he could probably double his wage by learning something about controls and industrial applications.
Hey Roy... the money is on the professional end of the market... professional behavior will get you there... here in SF a good controls electrician can earn 80 dollars an hour... a house wiring guy maybe 20 max.
In your area is probably a similar situation... you have a chance to learn and advance and have the money to buy hot cars and houses etc.
You would find that way in life ends better all around than the option you are demonsrating.
Best,
Phil Scott
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
Those in the link you snipped.... any crimped connector can be soldered or not soldered.. they are not specifically designed to be soldered... but are solderable, and in many corrosive environments are soldered to keep the wire from corroding inside the crimp.
If you want the links refer to most my posts you chose to snip or new threads Ive begun on the subject.
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