Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?

[Keith]

Ignore Fuchs. If you challenge his "perfection" he'll simply slither away and you'll feel dirty in the morning.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:03:55 -0500, Keith Gave us:

Unlike yourself. You ARE dirty every morning, noon, and night.

Your stalking baby bullshit proves it.

[Keith]

Nope, I always take a shower after trying to teach you something about engineering. Actually I don't care a shit for you, but others deserve better.

Stalking? You are some fuk'n pot.

[Billy H]

LAR DEE FUCKIN DAR

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 23:45:46 -0000, "Billy H" Gave us:

That would be:

La Di Dah

Lar dee dar is from the movie "Blazing Saddles"

Does the "H" stand for "Hill"? as in Hillbilly...

[jaywitkow]

Before I retired I was an electronics design Engineer. I remember one time I ran into a situation where I was wondering if the wires ought to be soldiered before being placed into a connector. I checked with both the vendor (probably Molex) and our manufacturing department. I remember the answer was a resounding NO. You never soldier wires that are going to be placed in a connector.

However, sometime around 1980, after I had just moved into the house I'm in now, I had a problem with a three-way switch that didn't work in my basement and the basement was completely sheet rocked. The previous owner/amateur electrician had fouled up on the wiring. A couple of years later, I had to remove the sheet rock underneath a cold air return to facilitate the addition of a new room and I was able to fish some wire through the ceiling and fix the problem. However, this necessitated a connection that would be covered by sheet rock (no lectures please). So I put the wires in an electrical box and twisted them and put a light coat of soldier on them. Then I put wire nuts on top of that. That was 25 years ago and I have never had any problems.

In regard to aluminum house wiring (single-strand), aluminum wiring is very dangerous when used inside of a house. It's one of the easiest way I can think of to get your house burned down. Putting copper and aluminum together causes a corrosive chemical reaction. It's use should be restricted to service entrance wires only and even then you should double check to make sure the connector is marked for aluminum. As I recall, these special connectors are marked "AL/CU".

If you happen to be unfortunate enough to have single-strand aluminum wire inside your house, then you need to make sure that all of the connectors (switches and outlets) are marked "AL/CU". These special switches and outlets are relatively expensive. If you need to connect an aluminum wire and copper wire together, there are special wire nuts available for doing that (also expensive). There is also some antioxidant cream available that you can use for copper/aluminum connections.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On 6 Feb 2006 23:47:50 -0800, [e-mail] Gave us:

You won't see a solder creep issue with that scenario. For one thing, the twisted SOLID strand wires cinch together fairly tightly even before they are soldered. Then, the CONICAL wire nut will likely always have more than enough pressure on the union for solder creep to never be a problem. Finally, the joint itself, by your own description only has a very light fill. For the solder creep to become a big problem, there would have to be so much of it that the cross sectional area of it is thick enough that solder creep could even be an issue. Also, solder creep also likes some constant stress be on the joint. The twisted SOLID wire bundles likely have no mechanical stress on them in several locations throughout the twisted assembly.

Though not spec, I see a very carefully constructed union like this as not being a problem. That is a personal view though, and an actual inspection would be required for me to conclude that the joints are truly integral.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On 6 Feb 2006 23:47:50 -0800, [e-mail] Gave us:

I agree with this. I hate Al wiring as the connections are not gas tight, and heat more than copper nodes do.

I have also seen many folks die in Al wired commercial establishments. The AL was not the immediate culprit. loose, improperly install unions were. However, copper unions sporting the same issues don't heat up as much, and would likely have never generated the fatal problem.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On 6 Feb 2006 23:47:50 -0800, [e-mail] Gave us:

Yes, and ALL nodes being very tight is paramount.

Running an all copper refit will improve the house value, and be safer and better, however.

[Billy H]

No It is Russian.

Noshart is it's pronunciation. Means 'one who shakes the sphere.'

[Bud--]

The best information I have seen on making aluminum wire branch circuit connections and fixing old installations is at:

is based extensive research, primarily for the Consumer Product Safety Commission, which looked at causes of failures of aluminum connections. The paper gives detailed procedures for making different kinds of connections and also other advice. A common theme is that aluminum oxide is a major cause of failure and aluminum wires should have antioxide paste applied then the wire abraded to remove oxides before making a connection. The author specifically does not like the Ideal #65 wire nut which, as far as I know, is the only wire nut that has been UL listed for aluminum wire.

Aluminum oxide, an insulator, forms very rapidly on a clean aluminum surface. Its formation is produced by the high reactivity of aluminum, not aluminum to other metal contact.

Devices for aluminum wire are marked CO/ALR.

bud--

[not i]

This is from The Canadian Electrical Code Rule 12-112 Conductor joints and splices (1) Unless made with solderless wire connectors,joints or spices in insulated conductors shall be soldered, but they shall first be made mechanically and electrically secure.

Rule 12-116 Termination of conductors (1) The portion of stranded conductors to be held by wire-binding terminals or solderless wire connectors shall have the strands confined so that there will be no stray strands to cause either short-circuits or grounds.

My Interpretation : Solder could be used to confine the strands!

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 14:05:19 -0500, not i Gave us:

What part of "Unless made with solderless wire connectors" do you not understand?

The remark about exposed strands is so that assemblers and inspectors can keep vigilant about making sure that their strip lengths and insertion depths are kept tightly spec'd when using crimp style connectors.

It isn't something you "interpret". It IS something where you follow the instructions given you by an inspector that DOES know what is going on. You obviously do not.

Sometimes I think that some of you "interpret" people need to be "confined" so that there will be no stray bullshit spewed into a technical newsgroup.

[Spokesman]

Hey Dark Matter, You sure told him!

[Phil Scott]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message news:43e12c2e$0$87295$ [e-mail]...

I am in the industrial controls business and work with stranded wire extensively, especially finely stranded wire in challenging environments. It is almost pervasively common that manufacturers supply equipment with the wire ends dipped in solder, I have never seen those loosen to any degree more than non soldered ends,

the soldered ends seem to be much more reliable and preferred. Thats after 40 years in the business across a broad spectrum of industrial applications, nuclear, petrochemical, semiconductor, food and marine applications.... including DDC applications.

Crimp connectors also work. they are less reliable than factory or field soldered ends under a screw in marine or industrial corrosive environments however.

Phil Scott

[Phil Scott]

that would be good, especially in a corrosive environment.

RE the govt training courses on the issue, one of the primary features one notices with government is incompetence, followed closely by insanity and bad practices. Thank god very few industrial controls manufacturers adopt such loopy practices.

Phil Scott

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:10:49 -0800, "Phil Scott" Gave us:

I suggest that you contact AMP or MOLEX and ask them.

Your remarks about the military show a lack of knowledge as well.

[Pop]

: >> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" : >> Gave : >> us: : >>

: >>>In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS : >>>rather than a : >>>written rule? : >>>

: >>>Pop : >>

: >> Absolutely not. : >>

: >> Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad : >> practice for any : >> compression type connection. : >

: > Just curious, what is the opinion for the following: : > crimping the : > connection, and THEN soldering it? : : that would be good, especially in a corrosive environment. : : RE the govt training courses on the issue, one of the primary : features one notices with government is incompetence, followed : closely by insanity and bad practices. Thank god very few : industrial controls manufacturers adopt such loopy practices.

Such a blanket statement, although true in some areas, is far from true as a blanket, plus exposes the fact that you have no real familiarity with the subject at hand. Not only that, but if you think "industrial controls manufacturer" don't and haven't used things like soldering techinques and methodologies, you're going to be grossly wrong in your overal picture you're trying to paint. You, along with several others have taken a good question asked by one who only needed a simple but reliable answer and have turned it into a crapfest of who knows what about what, and very few of the comments have had any real basis in fact, let along related to the OP's quest.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:01:25 GMT, "Pop" Gave us:

You are one lost mother fucker, boy.

There have been several posts which are based on FACT. Just not many if not any of yours.

You deride him for his comments on the military, but you essentially said the same thing with your "open to interpretation" post. It was from that point on that YOU discontinued actually speaking on the topic, and started acting like a f****ng wussy.

Go back and read the posts. There are many that have it right, and many that have it wrong, and in case you are still lost, this group is for exactly what you claim we are all doing wrong.

Usenet is a crapfest and that is why your lame ass is in the barrel.

And the thread is NOT off topic, dipshit.

I'll say it again. Crimped on, compression style connectors should NOT be soldered. Not after the connector is crimped on, nor the wire before it is inserted.

Call AMP or MOLEX and they'll explain it to your ass as well. You seem to think no one in the groups here know what they are talking about.

You're a goddamned loser if you think you can get away with that baby bullshit.

[Phil Scott]

You might find these links interesting Roy.

220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page. There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brazed connections in those locations)

Phil Scott

"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message news: [e-mail]...