DISH network tip.

[gfretwell]

I like to put them on the spot myself. When we bought my wife's Lincoln, I went ahead and let them think I was broke and I needed the loan. After we had done all the negotiating and they were ready to close, I pulled out my check book and wrote them a check for the price he quoted us. They lost it. It turned out, they were planning to make almost $2000 on the financing. They did hand me back my check and said they couldn't do it. I was surprised, usually they gripe about it but stop me before I get to the door. (I have done this before) I ended up financing $7500 (the minimum they could write) and paid it off in 3 payments, the minimum I could do. (1/2, then half of that, then the balance) The interest was about $150 using the funny way they compute it

With Obama's $4500 for the ragged out F150 I traded, the $450 for the scrap value of the truck and the tax credit for the closing fees, it was a pretty good deal. ;-)

[gfretwell]

I don't have much that is not backed up on another machine. The mirrored set is just for convenience. My media files are on all of the media machines (4 PCs right now.) That is the bulk of the material. The rest of the stuff is pretty small and easy to keep backed up. A lot of it is in my "cloud" (my web site) buried in a password protected FTP directory you can't navigate to without the URL.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Had a similar situation with my daughter. My graduation gift to her was the down payment,t he rest on here. She had a job. She went and looked at a car, had a price, etc. I went later with her to make the deal, but I asked, what is the real price going to be? Not only did the saleman not move, my daughter was willing to pay. She was nearly in tears "it my mney can't I buy what I want?" Then I remembered the dealer 10 miles down the road. Walked in, same exact car was there. Just give me a good price and I'll buy it was my answer. Saved $600. and daughter got a real life lesson. She laughed when the first salesman called her the next day.

[gfretwell]

My favorite is "what do I have to do to put you in this car today"

Just be sure you have an answer and stick to it.

Back in the olden days 75% of sticker was a good starting point and you wanted him to throw in the dealer prep items for free. Work from there.

[Tekkie®]

Don Y posted for all of us...

And neither is their tech support.

[Muggles]

My hubby doesn't ride in my vehicle often, but if he's been ill or had knee surgery (something like that), he has to ride with me, so the passenger seat has to fit him and be comfy enough for a ride to the Dr's office and back. He's a big boy, so the passenger seat has to have some leg room, too.

I ask "why" a lot! haha

I file/organize things in a similar way, too.

I was almost sold on a Nissan Juke but the seat were terrible. The most comfortable seats I've tried thus far are in a Nissan Cube.

I can't stand black interiors if it's going to be my car. I'd rather have a beige or tan interior.

[Muggles]

I get into trouble with some people because I reject the notion that they even have the authority or right to tell me what to do or not do. I'll make up my own mind and once I do I'll stick with my decision. It would be easier to just go along with some people, but it depends on what they're wanting from me.

[...]

[Muggles]

I'm just happy my old faithful van still works!

[Muggles]

You got a great deal it sounds like.

[Muggles]

I bet she remembered that life lesson.

[Don Y]

We found the seats in the Rogue, IIRC, comfortable. The Murano's seats felt too "conforming" (or, maybe I got that backwards)? The rogue had an interesting "rear shelf" in the cargo area that would have been of use to us. But, to be of *real* value, you'd have to buy a spare (the shelf is nominally the floor of the cargo area so when you raise it to the upper "shelf" position, you lose that rigid floor support)

We ruled out both vehicles because they both had "bugs" (flaws) in the vehicles we test drove: one wouldn't operate the rear liftgate when commanded (could be a broken switch or wire... or, even a configuration setting! But, the saleslady should have been able to address that problem: "See? this setting controls that feature!") and the other vehicle I was able to crash the navigation/entertainment system leaving it completely unresponsive. Not a good sign given that the dealership has continuous access to those vehicles AND the paid staff to keep them fully operational at all times! ("first impressions")

Some vehicles had light "fabric" but dark dash, side panels, etc.

A downside of the beige interior (which is what we had and what we chose for the new vehicle) is that it "scuffs" easily and visibly. Lots of blackish marks where the soles of my shoes drag across the threshold (if I fail to lift my feet high enough to completely "clear" that threshold).

[Don Y]

Societal and social norms allow select people to have greater control over our actions at different times/situations.

A police officer pulls you over and you *will* stop. When he requests your DL+registration, you *will* provide it. You surrendered these liberties when you consented to driving a vehicle.

When you visit a friend, colleague, you are morally obligated to honor their wishes regarding your behavior in their home. If they ask you to leave, you *will* leave. If they ask you to take off your shoes ("please"), you will or will not enter, etc.

At work, your employer has control (to a large degree) over your actions, etc. You're not free to exercise your will or opinion regardless of how "correct" it may (or may not) be.

The times where no such implicit constraints are imposed on your behavior is the most interesting: are you cooperative? obstructionist? combative? etc.

We don't smoke. If I'm in the middle of a public field (outdoors, beyond the reach of legal restrictions on smoking) and the person I'm speaking with chooses to smoke while speaking to me, I have a choice:

- do I ask him (politely) to please not smoke around me (why not??)?

- do I object to his inconsiderate blowing smoke in my face (not intentionally but, rather, out of sheer ignorance)?

- do I put up with his habit recognizing he has little physical choice in the matter?

- do I walk away?

If I'm throwing a dinner party, do I feel obligated to invite him if I *know* he won't honor my request NOT to smoke?

For a humorous alternate example, imagine having a friend with a health condition that results in excessive, fragrant flatulence... do I invite him to that same dinner party -- knowing it may make my other guests uncomfortable? Where do my obligations end and my freedom of choice take over?

[Tony Hwang]

Good salesmen are trained. And train is on going with the evolution of product. THey go to car manufacturer's training school. They are professional not like kids working at Best buy.

[Don Y]

But the choice of training determines what that salesman will know -- unless left to his own devices to seek MORE information.

E.g., I am willing to bet they could tell you how much per $K it costs to finance any vehicle at whatever their current financing terms are!

OOH, if I were to inquire as to the criteria by which the vehicle decides how many *cylinders* to use at any given instant, I'd expect most salesfolks (and probably many technicians!) to stare at me dumbfounded. Assuming they even KNOW that the ECU has this characteristic!

[Muggles]

I remember driving a Rogue. The seats were OK, but it drove kind of clunky, so I marked that off my list, too.

I don't mind if the color is a medium shade of tan or grey. I just can't stand black.

[Muggles]

Had one of my sons X girl friends get in the middle of a family disagreement while she was at my house. I asked her to step outside on the porch and wait for us to talk, and she refused. I nearly picked her up by her ear to escort her out, and my son could see THAT look in my eyes, too, but I could see the look in his eyes saying to me "Please don't do that...", so I didn't toss her out on her ear. BUT, I REALLY WANTED TO!

Lots of choices there! lol

[Don Y]

We found the Nissan's to be sort of "chevy" class vehicles. Just not the same quality that we were looking for in a "long term" purchase.

I had noted the "scuff marks" in our previous vehicle. It was just a niggling little detail that irked me -- the car always looked like it hadn't been cleaned (on the inside).

Repeating this with the *new* car seems like we failed to learn that lesson! :-/

I will start looking carefully at the various shoes that I wear to see if it is a fault of the *shoes*. Then, just eliminate the offender(s)!

[Don Y]

As I said, it's a *moral* obligation. There are many folks who see the world as revolving around themselves and don't feel "obligated" to play by social rules.

I tend to be very clinical in dealing with "boundaries".

Many years ago, I was invited to my boss's home for dinner. It was early November -- T-day on the near horizon. They had a young daughter (8?). I showed up with a Godiva chocolate *turkey* for her. She was clinging to her mom's leg as I walked in.

I handed the turkey to the *mother*. She looked at me, puzzled: "But, isn't this for ?" I said, "Yes. But, I don't think she should be accepting a gift/candy from a stranger (despite the fact that Mom & Dad obviously *both* know me!)"

I.e., daughter knows where the turkey came from. Daughter knows who to thank. *Mom* will decide when -- and if -- she can eat it. I have no role in this beyond my giving.

Likwise, I am "honorary Uncle" to many kids (some of which are now considerably "grown"). And, have been welcomed into many families' "inner circles". So, I see the families "in their normal/home environments" -- with all the blemishes, etc.

Over the years, have seen many arguments (between parents), many times watched kids being chastised/disciplined, etc. Not my business to interfere. Not my business to offer advice (unless directly asked). I should do my best to not make any of them more uncomfortable than they probably are, already (i.e., they KNOW I am present and yet have allowed things to escalate to this point)

Also, not my business to share what I've seen/heard with anyone outside that group (e.g., *their* inlaws, aunts, etc.)

OTOH, I have seen others in similar situations quick to volunteer advice, take sides, etc.

[Muggles]

[...]

Then again, isn't a car supposed to show a little bit of use?

[Don Y]

*Use*, not "signs that someone got in and then OUT of it"!