I like to put them on the spot myself. When we bought my wife's
Lincoln, I went ahead and let them think I was broke and I needed the
loan. After we had done all the negotiating and they were ready to
close, I pulled out my check book and wrote them a check for the price
he quoted us.
They lost it.
It turned out, they were planning to make almost $2000 on the
They did hand me back my check and said they couldn't do it.
I was surprised, usually they gripe about it but stop me before I get
to the door. (I have done this before)
I ended up financing $7500 (the minimum they could write) and paid it
off in 3 payments, the minimum I could do. (1/2, then half of that,
then the balance) The interest was about $150 using the funny way they
With Obama's $4500 for the ragged out F150 I traded, the $450 for the
scrap value of the truck and the tax credit for the closing fees, it
was a pretty good deal. ;-)
Had a similar situation with my daughter. My graduation gift to her was
the down payment,t he rest on here. She had a job. She went and looked
at a car, had a price, etc. I went later with her to make the deal, but
I asked, what is the real price going to be? Not only did the saleman
not move, my daughter was willing to pay.
She was nearly in tears "it my mney can't I buy what I want?" Then I
remembered the dealer 10 miles down the road. Walked in, same exact car
was there. Just give me a good price and I'll buy it was my answer.
Saved $600. and daughter got a real life lesson. She laughed when the
first salesman called her the next day.
My favorite is "what do I have to do to put you in this car today"
Just be sure you have an answer and stick to it.
Back in the olden days 75% of sticker was a good starting point and
you wanted him to throw in the dealer prep items for free.
Work from there.
But the choice of training determines what that salesman will know -- unless
left to his own devices to seek MORE information.
E.g., I am willing to bet they could tell you how much per $K it costs
to finance any vehicle at whatever their current financing terms are!
OOH, if I were to inquire as to the criteria by which the vehicle
decides how many *cylinders* to use at any given instant, I'd
expect most salesfolks (and probably many technicians!) to
stare at me dumbfounded. Assuming they even KNOW that the
ECU has this characteristic!
As we discussed before, my wife has a lot of sales experience. She
says people only have two things that make them buy, love or fear.
You either make them love your product or make them afraid not to buy
If you watch the TV ads you see both concepts in action, usually
trying to tap into both emotions.
On 9/24/2015 4:04 PM, email@example.com wrote:
This is how *all* people "manipulate" others! Consider political
ads, political speeches, trials (legal system), etc. Most people
are *so* easily manipulated by emotion that any *reasoned*
argument is a wasted effort -- they are far less capable of
analytic thought and far more susceptible to "animal instinct".
[notice how little "substance" is present in political discourse?
news reporting? etc.]
I contend that this is the reason behind most "buyer's remorse":
the emotional manipulator wears off (after the decision is finalized!)
and then the slower, calculating subconscious starts reexamining
the transaction in the cool light of day! Often, with regret.
If you, instead, apply *reason* to your decisions (not just purchases),
then there is a greater chance that your decision will stand the test
of time *without* those nagging uncertainties/regrets.
We've owned our vehicle for a couple of months, now. And, become
*happier* with our (reasoned) decision with each drive we take:
"Gee, they really thought this feature out a lot better than
those other vendors did!"
"Wow! Can you imagine how uncomfortable this ride would have
been in that (other) vehicle?"
Of course, the true test will be ten years hence...
I can agree with that . I worked in a very large plant making polyester.
Worked as a trouble shooter for part of the time.
Got a call one night the machine would not start. Went out and the fellow
said it would not start and he was pressing the RED button (which is the
stop button) and said 'see, it won't start'. Said to him' look you big dumb
ass try the GREEN button'.
I could tell lots of stories like that if I had the time.
About once a year the cable TV went out. First time I found out it blew a
fuse somewhere down the line from my house. Called them about 6 or 8 times
for the same problem over the years and still let them go through their
scrip but as I had already tried things, just answered them. Then they send
out the 'inside man' to check the house. He calls the 'out side man' to go
and check where the fuse is.
After the second time I tried to tell the phone person to send the 'outside'
man but they never do, so quit trying to tell them anything.
The same problem also exists in reverse -- "technicians" thinking the
customer/user is an idiot and NOT taking him/her for granted.
When we had DSL, I was encountering lots of "line noise" problems
(cables are all below grade, here, so water infiltration often compromises
a cable). Technician came out to test the line. Chatted with him
for a bit while he was setting up, etc. So, he had some idea as to
my technical abilities.
After running a battery of tests, he shook his head and said, "Looks good",
and was getting ready to pack up and leave ("No fault found"). I asked
him to humor me. As we were having a good discussion, he opted to do so.
Some 4 or 5 minutes later, the noise floor shot up tremendously! He
clipped his handset to the pair and could barely make out the *dial* tone!
"Yikes! Looks like you've got a problem, here!"
I've learned with any "professional" who shows up to do some repair that
it is in my best interest to engage them in conversation so they understand
the quality of my comments and don't rush to dismiss them (on the work
order they've been given) as they might for one of my neighbors. Having
to call them *back* isn't a win for *anyone*!
I detected a slight natural gas odor (rotten eggs) after a plumber had
done some work on the gas line, here. He double checked it (soapy
water test) and dismissed it as a figment of my imagination.
I borrowed a portable mass spectrometer from a friend who was the
Safety Officer at a local hospital. With this as a "sniffer", went
in search of the leak.
Called the plumber *back* (after having returned the instrument) and
pointed him at the *exact* location that I had isolated. Again,
the soapy water comes out. But, this time, he's far more patient
and sits for a good 5 minutes watching for bubbles.
"Wow! That's such a *tiny* leak! How the hell could you smell
that with your nose??"
On 9/22/2015 4:28 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
The folks on the phone aren't typically "at liberty" to *waive*
the LEGAL TERMS of your contractual agreement.
Should the terms say: "The equipment is ours. Attempting to
disassemble, modify or repair it voids the warranty -- except
for the remote control (which you can do with as you please;
we will replace them indefinitely so make sure you call and request
a new one any time yours gets dirty or your kids smash it
with a hammer!)"
If you are capable of disassembling/repairing a snap-together/solvent-welded
plastic remote with conductive *rubber* buttons, shouldn't you *also* be
capable of replacing the power plug when the strain relief fails and
it develops an intermittent connection? *Shirley* you'll know how to
strip wire insulation, twist the stranded conductors together before
*correctly* orienting them under the screw heads, taping any exposed
conductors, etc.! Look at all the money you'll save us -- not having
to ship out a new unit for a frayed cord!
And, heck, you've probably ALSO got experience replacing disk drives
in computers! So, if you're willing to use one of your *own* disk
drives, we should be thrilled to let you disassemble the unit (DVR)
and install it! Our stock price will soar now that we've cut out
all these (warranty) repair costs!
Imagine them letting you do these things. Perhaps, over time, even
ENCOURAGING people to do them -- to keep their warranty costs low.
Then, one day, little Timmy gets electrocuted cuz his Dad didn't
properly connect a wire. Or, their house burns down cuz a short
in the unit (a result of a slipshod repair his Dad made) started
a blaze. THEY want to sue the manufacturer for damages. The
manufacturer ENCOURAGED these repairs (at the very least, didn't
Always have to be careful with what you say to a "company representative".
Mid 80's, I was developing an electronic KWHr meter (the gizmo on the
side of your house that tells the power company how much electricity
you've used this month). My prototype had the ability to "talk" to
a PC -- so I could collect data, control its operation, calibration, etc.
As it was just a prototype (quantity ONE), I cut some corners in the
implementation of the interface. Specifically, I did NOT electrically
isolate the interface from the power line (that the meter was
monitoring!). This was fine as the PC "floats" wrt the AC line.
But, when I plugged in a *printer* to get some hard-copy output, there
was an explosive *pop* as something gave up its magic blue smoke.
You can *bet* that when I called the PC manufacturer to complain about
my brand new $8,000 PC "going bang", I didn't tell them the details
of my unusual "system configuration" that CAUSED the problem! :>
Maybe you missed the part where I said the LAST time I called, the guy
on the phone TOLD me to try to clean it and explained where to pry to
pop it open.
They are NOT welded together and it is easy to open one.
I understand the guy on the phone was probably a US tech and the guys
on the chat line are in the 3d world somewhere. I just did not know
they operate under different rules.
It is still silly that if I just SAY I have a bad remote and go
through their 4-5 step script, I get a new one, no questions asked but
if I say I tried to fix in, "no remote for you".
They do not want the old one back so I really could have just given my
remote to a neighbor or even sold it on Ebay.
That was very common on the Replay TV units and I never heard of
anyone getting in trouble getting support after they put a bigger
drive in one. Maybe Sonic Blue was more enlightened.
They got sued out of business tho.
You keep ignoring the fact that this is a direct replacement item with
no return. They have no way of knowing what I did.
So you are saying "do as I say, not as I do" ;-)
I am not surprised that your machine blew up if you did not float the
printer too. Better would have been to isolate the PC from the power
line with the right kind of coupling device (balun or whatever)
On old computers a DDA coupler was a good way to isolate the serial
port. If it was good enough for Ma Bell it was good enough for me.
On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 4:34:43 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
It's a cheap made in China remote that costs them a few bucks and
isn't worth the time they are taking arguing about it and losing a
customer in the process, it's not a DISH receiver or some other
piece of more expensive eqpt.
On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:42:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
It was simply a room of of script monkeys, following the rules.
I almost understand it until I step back and apply a little logic.
I did think it was funny that when I said, "OK I have two OTHER bad
remotes and I never touched them" that it just sailed through.
If people are not allowed to think, you just have to lower yourself to
I am sure they are laughing about this in a bar in Bangladesh too,
I don't think the people are stupid, only the rules they operate
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:44:12 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
Ah ... SLT cards (Solid Logic Technology). The chips were made in
Fishkill New York and the cards may have been assembled in a number of
plants. That was fairly low intensity integration. Those chips were
analogous to a TTL chip. (one or 2 gates on a chip depending on
They kept increasing the density until we got to a CPU on a chip and
the whole computer on a card. At that point, they didn't need me.
On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
By the mid 70s most of the SLT (S/360) stuff was long gone although
there were a few boxes still floating around out there. The newer
technologies used the same basic can but there was a lot more on the
By the mid 70s logic on the big machines was water cooled and a whole
lot of circuitry on the wafer.
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