If you have the service agreement, never admit you tried to fix anything. I had two flaky remotes and I tried to fix one of them by cleaning the board and pads.
Bear in mind these are not returnable items. They send you a new one and you throw the old one away.
When I called for a replacement they said the coverage was void because I took it apart. I said "so if I just threw it in the trash it would be OK" "No then it is lost and we do not cover loss" "But when I get the new one, I just throw the old one away" "yes" "How do you know I messed with it at all" "you told us"
It just got silly from there.
I said "OK I also have 2 OTHER bad remotes and I am afraid to touch them"
"OK great, you will have 2 new ones an a couple days"
Moral, no good deed goes unpunished. Never admit you tried to help.
I assume the other two are actually good, so the problem is solved? If not, I guess you can wait awhile, then claim you have another bad one. Amazing that they have that absurd position, good way to lose customers over a cheap remote.
From their point of view, how do they know you were qualified to diagnose the (it could just as easily have been the DISH tuner box with which you were tinkering!) was, in fact, 'defective'? And, that you are even remotely qualified to disassemble (without breaking), repair *and* reassemble it?
Given that they have to come up with a policy that addresses customers who may well be ROCKET SCIENTISTS as well as COMPLETE IDIOTS, it seems like the only logical choice is the one they made.
I really could not believe it, after this stupid thread continued with the supervisor on line. I assume they are all script monkeys there and nobody has the power to think. This guy kept playing the game after I said we were talking about two OTHER remotes. He was about to run the whole trouble shooting script when I just gave him all the answers before he could get past "replace the batteries". It ended with a simple "what address do we send the remotes to."
If I had not said I actually tried to fix them before I wanted new ones they would have simply sent me new ones.
Remember these are not supposed to be returned. They would not know if it had a bullet hole in it. (I wasn't that mad at them anyway) ;-)
So what, they simply send you another one anyway. It was already broke! Me fooling with it was not going to make it worse. In fact, cleaning it bought them a few months and a few extra payments into the maintenance kitty. I really won't be making money on that maintenance plan until lightning blows up both of my sat boxes.
They don't *know* that it was broke. The *receiver* could have been broke. The batteries could have been dead; you may have installed replacement batteries *backwards*, etc. All they know is the remote function *appeared* not to work -- ACCORDING TO YOU!
Do you know how many items are returned as "broken" that, in fact, are NOT broken? I.e., consumers are not good diagnosticians. How do they know *your* capabilities? They mail you another remote and your problem may or may NOT go away.
OTOH, you tinkering with their equipment leaves them at *your* mercy.
I design electronic products. I repair most electronic products that I purchase. That doesn't mean I don't make mistakes when performing those diagnostics/repairs. The difference is, I do those repairs when I no longer have the recourse of a warranty to exploit. I.e., it's broken; I MAY be able to fix it -- or, I may break it *more*! But, *I* am assuming the risk for my actions -- not expecting the manufacturer to pick up the pieces if/when I screw up!
A warranty repair/replace costs *more* than the original product cost (the manufacturer). They don't want to be fixing things that *you* may have broken -- or, that you may have *changed* the failure mode through your unfamiliarity with the device.
["Yeah, that's failure type XYZ001 -- replace module 23, verify operation and ship it back to the customer" suddenly becomes "Cripes! Who was poking around in here? Nothing is where it should be! Just scrap the entire item..."]
I can agree with that . I worked in a very large plant making polyester. Worked as a trouble shooter for part of the time. Got a call one night the machine would not start. Went out and the fellow said it would not start and he was pressing the RED button (which is the stop button) and said 'see, it won't start'. Said to him' look you big dumb ass try the GREEN button'. I could tell lots of stories like that if I had the time.
About once a year the cable TV went out. First time I found out it blew a fuse somewhere down the line from my house. Called them about 6 or 8 times for the same problem over the years and still let them go through their scrip but as I had already tried things, just answered them. Then they send out the 'inside man' to check the house. He calls the 'out side man' to go and check where the fuse is. After the second time I tried to tell the phone person to send the 'outside' man but they never do, so quit trying to tell them anything.
The same problem also exists in reverse -- "technicians" thinking the customer/user is an idiot and NOT taking him/her for granted.
When we had DSL, I was encountering lots of "line noise" problems (cables are all below grade, here, so water infiltration often compromises a cable). Technician came out to test the line. Chatted with him for a bit while he was setting up, etc. So, he had some idea as to my technical abilities.
After running a battery of tests, he shook his head and said, "Looks good", and was getting ready to pack up and leave ("No fault found"). I asked him to humor me. As we were having a good discussion, he opted to do so. Some 4 or 5 minutes later, the noise floor shot up tremendously! He clipped his handset to the pair and could barely make out the *dial* tone!
"Yikes! Looks like you've got a problem, here!"
I've learned with any "professional" who shows up to do some repair that it is in my best interest to engage them in conversation so they understand the quality of my comments and don't rush to dismiss them (on the work order they've been given) as they might for one of my neighbors. Having to call them *back* isn't a win for *anyone*!
I detected a slight natural gas odor (rotten eggs) after a plumber had done some work on the gas line, here. He double checked it (soapy water test) and dismissed it as a figment of my imagination.
I borrowed a portable mass spectrometer from a friend who was the Safety Officer at a local hospital. With this as a "sniffer", went in search of the leak.
Called the plumber *back* (after having returned the instrument) and pointed him at the *exact* location that I had isolated. Again, the soapy water comes out. But, this time, he's far more patient and sits for a good 5 minutes watching for bubbles.
"Wow! That's such a *tiny* leak! How the hell could you smell that with your nose??"
It's not that people are "stupid". But, most aren't analytical thinkers. They don't have the mindset, skillset or inclination to sit down and sort out the exact nature of a problem.
Now, they're in a frustrating situation ( isn't working for some reason) *and* you want them to be calm and logical in thinking about the source of their frustration?? :>
This is one of the main reasons why brand new (obviously working!) items are returned for refunds: the user is unnecessarily intimidated by a device that doesn't work the way he *hopes* it will work!
I get frustrated when vendors/manufacturers assume *all* users are inept and reduce a "problem" to a bogus error code (analogous to an idiot light!). Why not indicate what you were *trying* to do and what UNEXPECTED condition was detected? That way, instead of conveying an error code to a support person -- and waiting for them to look it up in The Big Book of Error Codes -- I can possibly check some of the things that YOUR message *suggests* -- either explicitly in the text of the message or *implicitly* as I ponder what the message might mean?!
I had a recent piece of software crash miserably during installation simply because a network cable was not plugged into the network jack on the computer! The software didn't care if the network was accessible -- just that the network *interface* was "up"! Had the error message included the characters "n e t w o r k" in it ANYWHERE, I would have explored this option immediately! :-/ Instead, I look at the software as "of poor quality".
All becoming button pushing robots. I never call tech support. For the time spent with them, I'll figure problem out. I as much as I can purchase top tier pro. grade product and use them long time. Probably at the end I save money and I keep my BP down.
there is a large amount of poorly designed stuff coming out these days...
my recent example was a stereo receiver that worked fine except i could not set the stereo channels unless it were plugged into an HDMI TV (which we don't have). after reading several thousand messages, searching elsewhere on- line and reading the manual (only available on-line), there was no other way to do it. so i ended up returning it the next day and bought a different unit (for $50 less from another company) which did have the buttons on the front for setting the stations. now everything works that i need to have happen, but i can't figure out how to clear a preset station... nothing too important there as i can always set them to the same station we listen to.
as for cheap products that don't last my previous keyboard for the computer lasted about 6 months before the keycaps wore out and the space bar started sticking. the keyboard i'm using now should last longer than me.
But, wouldn't you at least expect the average user to know what a plug/power chord is?
A long time ago there were some issues with a particular public database list was crashing. No one could figure out why it was doing that, so one day I had some time on my hands and thought I'd give it a try and see if I could figure it out. It turns out that the back end of the DB list had a flaw. When a new list title was created with a particular symbol that was actually invisible when created, that symbol would crash the list. It could only be seen from looking at the list from the back end, not the public view. If that new list item was deleted from the DB, the list could then be refreshed and returned to normal working view.
Some people thought it was funny to crash the list, but no one tried to fix it because they thought it was some big mystery. I'm not even a major techie when it comes to stuff like that, but I like to analyze and solve problems. Kind of even surprised myself when I fixed the issue. Then I passed on the solution to the others who needed to know.
I guess I think it's not so hard to do that sort of stuff, but then again being analytical is kind of normal for me. Many people just aren't analytical.
My neighbor's mom had some car problems. She brought the car over to the neighbor's house. Neighbor went out to take a peek: "Mom, how do you open the hood?" "Gee, I don't know! When I take it to the gas station, the guy just does THIS (puts arms out at her sides like a priest inviting his congregation to pray) and *poof*, it opens!"
There are lots of cases of software not properly handling "unexpected" input. Business wants to lower the quality of individuals they "need" for any given task. Just like McDonald's has a cash register that features *pictures* of the food items (so the operators don't have to THINK about what they are doing -- 5 hamburgers? Just press teh hamburger button 5 times!), software is moving towards a "black box" implementation style.
Which is fine. *If* the black boxes are well defined and folks completely understand how they operate. If, OTOH, they just "kinda" know what the box is supposed to do (and imagine that it does all the "other stuff" exactly the way they happen to NEED it to be done, at this point in time), then you're in for a rude awakening when it craps out.
Just because you happen to think A then B then C then D doesn't mean the real world (or real users!) will comply with that expected behavior!
In school, damn near every course had its own "custom" computer system (this predates the PC). Each professor had his own idea how a computer system should work, etc.
The system for one of my classes had two disk drives (volumes): 0 and 1 (sort of like C: and D:). If you asked the system to show you the contents of disk *2*, it died.
But, back then, we were using dot matrix printing terminals (DECwriters). So, it took a while for everything the computer had "sent" to your terminal to actually get printed. There were ~30-40 of these attached to the computer all residing in the "lab" where we did our homework.
The favorite trick was to finish YOUR homework assignment in the wee hours of the morning (when all the "staff" was home, asleep) and then list disk 2 and calmly walk out of the room -- listening to the printers stopping, one by one, as you walked down the hall. Then, the groans from the remaining students who knew they could not finish their homework by morning (machine is dead until someone comes in to reboot it!)
Exactly. Many people want to be told "the answer". And, if not spoon fed that answer, just sit in "pause" mode waiting for it!
The problem is that the "push-button mentality" is pervading all levels of technology/expertise! People understand much LESS about what they do (for their jobs!) than ever before. Management would like employees to be interchangeable cogs -- just teach Mr A which buttons to push so he can do Mr B's job!
As there is no investment in physical devices ("quality" for the long haul), there is also no investment in human "devices".
A consequence of this is those human devices have very little invested in their jobs or particular employers! Their "skillsets" have been made portable -- so they can move just as easily as being replaced!
Someone made some baseless ASSUMPTIONS about how the device was going to be used -- then forgot to declare those as REQUIREMENTS in the product documentation!
Just because "you" (he) want to use something in a particular way doesn't necessarily mean the device MUST be used in that way!
I was contacted by a company many years ago to work on an electronic access control system they were developing (think: door locks). After meeting the staff and touring the facilities, I was given a brief demonstration of their prototype system.
My "host" showed me how a "key" was created and then used in a sample door lock set up beside the prototype. And, how the key could be changed and the lock "recoded" for the new key, master keys introduced, etc.
I asked if I could "play": "By all means! Help yourself!"
Standing sideways so he could watch my actions, I started the procedure to create a new "Grand Master" key -- one that would unlock any door in the hypothetical facility. Then, just before actually creating the physical key, I unplugged a cable that connected the computer to the "key maker".
My host became agitated -- but restrained himself. Confidently, I then proceeded to make THREE Grand Master keys -- showing each of them to him. Then, pressed the CANCEL button, reattached the cable that I had removed and motioned to the message on the screen: "Process canceled. No keys made" -- while holding the three keys in my hand.
I.e., someone ASSUMED that no one would ever unplug that cable! Especially not at that key point in the process!! Perhaps if I had unplugged it at the start of the process, the machine may have sensed the unplugged cable and thrown an error message blocking the key creation process from continuing.
The limited imagination of the designer(s) represented a significant security flaw -- in a product that is *designed* to impose security on a facility!
Years ago, the legends in keycaps were actually *molded* into the plastic. I.e., a "white" piece of plastic with a raised legend was created and then a "black" piece of plastic was molded *around* this. So, the legend was an integral part of the keycap -- not just a label *printed* on the surface!
OTOH, if you expect a computer to be replaced in 3 years, why make a keyboard that lasts more than 3??
It's a cheap made in China remote that costs them a few bucks and isn't worth the time they are taking arguing about it and losing a customer in the process, it's not a DISH receiver or some other piece of more expensive eqpt.
I saw on the local TV station (in North Carolina) where someone complained and took a new car back because the built in GPS unit would not understand voice commands. While voice reconition has came a long way , I still don't think it is there yet. Sort of like me trying to understand some of the off shore help line people.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.