death in group

[Vic Smith]

Maybe he top posted his signature.

[clare]

More likely used his own personal version of "center posting" where his sig could not be found - - -

[FromTheRafters]

I had the same feeling. It is best to not work alone if at all possible. Of course, those who failed to be saved by paramedics aren't posting the details of their experiences.

Here are some stats for anyone interested.

[makolber]

or this may have been a return gig and he already knew how to get to the roof and he just "checked in" with one of the employees in a routine way on his way.

[Checkmate, DoW #1]

Paying attention to the one that no one pays attention to.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Look at the staff of your typical retail store and you have the answer. No one knows anything or cares.

[trader_4]

Yeah, I don't see some big, unusual issue here. Similar probably happens all the time, especially if it's a regular maintenance guy they are used to showing up and servicing them.

I remember on one of those TV shows where they help stores prevent crime, they sent a guy into a liquor store dressed as a service guy and he rolled a whole refrigerated display case full of booze right out the front door. He just told one of the employees he was there to fix a bad unit.

[Ed Pawlowski]

A roof with only the sky above is not a confined space though. One of the reasons it is covered by regulation is lack of oxygen from chemicals in the confined space. Not much chance of it happening on a roof.

I've had roof acess in places I worked and there was no regulation, no checking with anyone. Up the stairs and open the door.

Roofers have other regulations but they would probably not apply, not that would they help since he did not fall off.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yeah, sure. I think you work for a largish corporation that may have rules like that. Local stores not so much. IIRC, someone said Chris has worked for this place in the past so he may have been known and thus had full access.

He may have been working for the building owner, not the store itself. That would exempt him from some store rules as he was not working for them, just passing through. Store manager, the 18 yo high school part timer has no policy to cover the situation and certainly has not had training (or common sense and experience) to cover the situation. Chris went up a back stair, the kid went out to wait on a customer and never sees or cares what happened after that moment. Then the kid leaves at 5 and the next clerk locks up at the end of the night never knowing anyone ever came there.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Why not? Who was he working for? The store of the landlord?

Couple of years ago my grandson and a few of his friends worked on the roof of a major chain store in town. They were doing snow removal and were hired by the building owner, not the store. No regulations, no insurance prohibitions.

[clare]

The security is pretty lax if they didn't notice the roof hatch was still open. You can only close and lock it from the inside. Generally they are connected to the building alarm system as well, so whoever closed down for the night should have realized something was wrong - or is Wallgreens a 24 hour opperation now?? (which could explain a lot)

[bob_villa]

It does meet criteria: "A confined space is a space large enough for a worker to enter, is not designed for "continuous employee occupancy," and has limited means for entry and exit".

[Ed Pawlowski]

Good point. Many Walgreens are 24 hours so no one would be setting alarms.

[Ed Pawlowski]

No, you left out this part: A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one or more of the following characteristics:

Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering employee Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping floor Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5

[DerbyDad03]

It's not a good point based on the simple fact that verifying the hours of operation for this specific property is so easily done.

Hint: My statements related to "They should have checked for non-employees before they left" are valid.

[bob_villa]

I gave the broad definition...sorry you don't like it. NNTR

[Don Wiss]

This one is not. It is 8AM - 10PM seven days a week.

But as I argue elsewhere, I doubt there is a hatch, but a stairs leading to the tower that is in the front corner of the store. This means there is a door to a small room with the stairs near the front entrance.

Don.

(e-mail link at home page bottom).

[clare]

The access location MAY meet the definition of confined space, but I doubt a several thousand square foot open rooftop would.

From your own cite :

A permit-required confined space (PRCS) is a confined space with one or more of the following characteristics: Contains or has a potential to contain a hazardous atmosphere Contains a material that has the potential for engulfing an entering employee Has an internal configuration such that an employee could be trapped or asphyxiated by inwardly converging walls or by a downward-sloping floor Contains any other recognized serious safety or health hazard5 Which of the above 4 conditions does an open roof comply with???

[clare]

The hours listed are 8am to 10pm - so the alarm would have to have been set. Someone likely just hollered "anyone up there" and pulled the hatch down and locked it - Ass-U-ming whoever was up there just forgot to latch it when he left......

[clare]

Doesn't fit the requirements - sorry YOU don't like it - - -