"Some Guy" wrote
You think wrong. Medical oxygen is used in many places aside from hospitals. Thousands of bottle every day are used in private homes. They are single size, no manifolds, They are generally used until empty. Valves are left open, regulators removed. They are sometimes stored in poor environments, must basements, trunk of a car, under the sink, laundry room.
Not speculation. I've filled tanks. I followed the regulations.
When I was a commercial deep sea diver, the oxygen we used in decompression chambers was the same oxygen that we used for OA cutting. We did not use medical oxygen.
Steve
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"The Daring Dufas" wrote
LOX tanks fill LOX tanks. They can be filled for patient use of that is what their supplier gives them. They are a different setup that using compressed O2 though. Different tanks, regulators, etc. They are not usually filled at hospital though, but by independent providers.
Compressed tanks either need mechanical pumps or, most home medical suppliers use a cascade system of tanks increasing pressure into the smaller tanks with each on up the line.
Which is why there are requirements for cleaning the tanks before filling. After that, you are on your own. Same with medicines, etc. They have to be manufactured and stored pre-patient to certain conditions.
Interestingly enough, this thread has gone on for as long as it has w/o anyone mentioning the main danger of non-medical oxygen... That the insurance company won't pay for it (g).
Nope, exactly the opposite.
"Some Guy" wrote
But if the analysis does not say what the impurities are, you are trading on dangerous ground. That welding tank may have been used along with any other gas used in industrial environments.
Lawyers and other sensible people that do not know what other gas may be in there. Oxygen falls into the same type of situation ad drugs. The active ingredients of a pill are often a small percentage of the tablet, the rest being inert ingredients. There are regulations on what those inert ingredients can be. There are regulations on how they are handled.
If I was dying in an emergency situation from lack of oxygen, I'd grab any tank available. If I was at home with COPD, I'd want to be sure that tank was handled in a proper manner and would not make me worse off.
They aren't doing anything different, those are the *standards*, not the actual product spec. The reality is that both grades (actually four since there is an "aviator" grade and an "analytical" grade as well) are filled from the same cryo tanks and both exceed the 99.99% welding grade standard. Only the analytical grade gets extra attention to ensure it is
99.999% pure.
I've seen this as well, just one big rack of "welding" O2 cylinders, grab one for cutting, or grab one for the hyperbaric chamber, all the same.
Yes, it's the same. Anything to the contrary is "urban legend" or hype for the purpose of charging more for the same stuff. All the O2 grades, including the five nines analytical grade are filled from the same cryo tanks, and only the analytical grade gets any extra testing to ensure the 99.999% spec. The reality is that the welding O2 purity standard (99.99%) is higher than the medical O2 purity standard (99.95%), and that the actual product from the gas suppliers exceeds those purity standards by a wide margin.
As has been noted many times already, the welding grade purity standard is higher than that for the medical grade. People who do not know anything about welding think it's some low standards dirty process, but that is simply not the reality. Impurities in O2 that are harmless for human use, will cause welds to fail inspections.
Welding O2 standard 99.99% pure O2 Medical O2 standard 99.95% pure O2
The reality is that the actual product in the cylinders is closer to
99.999% pure, the analytical grade standard.
Your assertion is in direct opposition to purity standards especially those regarding impurities.
Why don't you make a slight attempt to educate yourself?
Why don't you do some research? I actually use O2 regularly, both for welding / cutting as well as for breathing and nitrox blending. I'm well aware of the fact that the welding O2 purity standard is tighter than the standard for medical O2, as well as the fact that all grades of O2 from any of the large gas suppliers exceeds both the welding and medical purity standards by a significant margin.
You're stuck on old paranoia based on information that is decades out of date. All of the O2 purity grades specify no more than 0.05% impurities, and the most lax of the standards is the medical / aviator grade. The reality is that all the grades are filled from the same cryo O2 source and all are better than 99.99% pure O2.
I imagine they evacuate any tank they are going to put oxygen in, just for the reasons you mention. It wouldn't take much of any fuel gas in there to make an oxygen explode like a bomb. Have you ever seen a balloon full of oxygen and acetylene go up? One the size of a bowling ball will rattle windows blocks away and that is just a balloon. Imagine that being a steel tank.
It isn't. Read on impurities, not just the main percentage of O2.
Again, you ignore impurities and only look at the O2 percentage.
So provide a cite to your claimed impurity information, and what impurity present at 0.001% concentration in the O2 is such a hazard.
Hummmm, so you say LOX can't be allowed to boil off into O2 gas and be distributed all over a hospital campus or used to fill portable O2 tanks? UAB hospital has several hospitals next door. The VA, the county hospital, The Eye Foundation and several clinics are all on the same street. Many are connected by skywalks so I have to believe they share resources.
TDD
exactly as I was taught in First Aid. Any tank of oxy (be sure it is oxy and not just compressed air) will do in an emergency but use medical for extended periods.
Harry K
"The Daring Dufas" wrote
No, not what I said, It is done often for use, but not for filling tanks. What I did was is that the oxygen coming off of the LOX is not of sufficient pressure to fill a compressed tank, you need mechanical pumps to assist. There are small tanks that can be filled with LOX from big tanks and that is allowed for local use or portables. You are confusing two different forms of O2 and the equipment used for them.
UAB hospital has several hospitals next door. The VA, the
I doubt they have a central tank to go that distance, but I've not seen it. Post photos or drawings of the layout when you get them.
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