Can I do this? Electrical

The difference, Philo, is YOU KNOW. He'd have to spend a couiple hours typing the questions to the newsgroup, and another couple stumbling through google trying to prove we were wrong, before starting to trace the wire, then he'd hook it up wrong and damage the timer, then go through the whole exercise again. A good case for why there are electricians (and mechanics)

Thankfully this time he did the right thing and ordered the right switch for the job. Hopefully that solves his problem

Reply to
clare
Loading thread data ...

Yep, I've been on "five minute" projects that everyone wanted to spend two hours discussing in advance.

I remember the time we had to setup a large plywood sign and after a few minutes of discussion I yelled:

"Let's grab it and put it up...we can then go inside and discuss how we did it wrong, later."

Reply to
philo

Depends on the home's construction.

A stick built house on a 48" crawl space with attic access is quick and easy to run more romex.

If it's CMU construction on a slab with a flat roof, a 5-minute job becomes an all-day project.

Reply to
Red Sparks

It is an X-10 system Available under a few names I bought one at the same time you did. I still have a few lights controlled by the timer. Now they even have screw in lamp modules.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

We have no idea what condition the wiring is in at this DIYer's home. Give n the crazy idea he has expressed about consciously creating an electrical hazard and code violation, his priority for safety sounds low. With such an attitude, it is possible that his grounding electrode system is a mess.

You are right about the standard going away for using the ground as a neutr al. They found that multiple devices wired this way in a home has a cumula tive effect on the ground current.

I have a chart on my web site outlining the effects of electrical current o n the human body:

formatting link

Reply to
John G

So what you are telling us is that there are bad guys watching your house so closely and so consistently that they will notice as soon as the light in the kitchen changes from a ceiling fixture to a lamp.

Are you a spy or something? Who is watching your house so closely?

Ok, so let's say they are watching your house that closely. Do you turn the kitchen light on and off every night at the exact time that the timer is going to? If not, the folks that are watching your house have 11 weeks to notice the exactness of the pattern and will know it's a timer.

Of course, they are also probably going to know that you aren't home. They've already hacked your life and know your complete trip itinerary.

Forget the timer. You're screwed anyway.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

That's okay.

You also included "wired the thing properly". It would take me a long time** to decide If I'm ready to give up on the original task of that wire, to flash the kitchen lights when the alarm goes off. The wire is still connected to the relay that I thought was needed (althought the instructions for the alarm panel said everything** except that) and I realize I could use the horn/siren output and a flasher to flash the lights. I just remembered that IRC it already turned the hall light on when I walked in the door. Why didn't I connect that to the new panel?

**So I have now decided. I'm not ready to "re-purpose" the wire.. And after all this the switch I bought from Amazon doesn't require a neutral

-- can't even use one, only has 3 wires -- and it came at 6PM the day I ordered it. Still amazing.

Reply to
micky

The only two posts I've read by you have been inane complaints about me, which added nothing to how to fix my problem. In one post you knew that, and in the other you just werent' thinking. .

So you are the troll, not me. I'm not in your post right now to kerplunk you, so I'll give you one more chance.

I'm not going to and I haven't complained about calling me ignorant for saying things you think are dangerous. The insults I complained about were totally personal and your opinion based on your view of how to live one's life, as if that's the only way.

I wanted to hear the best arguments against doing what I was inclined to do, and I thought even the best arguments were not very strong in this situation. And if you'd read this whole thread, 2 or 3 people agreed with me. So when you say I didn't seem to learn much, I think you mean I didn't learn to agree with you. I learned what everyone thought, which is what I wanted.

I'm reminded of a discussion in Pres. Lincoln's cabinet, followed by a vote and everyone voted one way except Lincoln. He said 12 against, 1 for, the For's have it. Perhaps you're recommending that I pretend to go along with your advice even when I don't intend to.

Reply to
micky

I started out with X-10 in my home but found them to be very unreliable. So I switched to Insteon devices (sold at smarthome.com). They communicate wirelessly in addition to sending signals over the power line. They have been much more reliable for me than X-10 ever was.

I have modules for our porch lights, the lights on our detached garage, our hot water recirculating pump, and the fan for our fresh air ventilation system. I control them all using "Home Control Assistant" software on my computer.

I tried a few different standalone timers for these devices, but find the computer control more reliable and easier to work with.

Anthony Watson

formatting link
formatting link

Reply to
HerHusband

See, even you agree with me, "very low current", "very low potential for danger", and "particularly as a short term situation." and your only path out of agreeing with me is claiming I don't know what I'm doing, which a) isn't true**, b) wouldn't make ANY difference in what was done. What would someone who knew EVERYthing about electricity do differently when he connected light timer to the ground instead of the neutral? Nothing at all.

**You've been claiming that I don't know what I'm doing more than once in the past, built you've never had a good example. I didn't argue with you every time because it was likely pointless. The only thing you have in this thread is your claim it's dangerous to let the wire from a light bulb go into your hand and out somewhere else in that hand or the same arm. Who is right about that is still debatable. One would get a tingle, but nothing more even from a 150 watt bulb. But I'm in the middle of packing for a long trip and I don't have time to do it right now.

When I get back in June, maybe I'll remember or you can remind me. I probably won't be reading this group after Tuesday and until then, and I certainly won't have the parts to do the test until I get back.

I wondered about that at the time, but it was 33 years ago and I was young and "adventurous".

No, not more dangerous at all, because its role was as another neutral, and only when the alarm was sounding, which was practically never.

It was the light current not just the timer current, but the wire was insulated, unlike the ground wire.

I already agreed that that is a good idea, but let me remind you it wasn't in your first reply. That was:

-- end quote --

And yet you're dumping on me again for doing what you've already done. Think about that. This isn't a complaint, just an observation of fact.

Reply to
micky

I don't want to let math get in the way of a good rant but a 150w bulb draws 1.25a when the filament is hot (~96 ohms) and it is pretty much a dead short when it is cold. (6.3 ohms on the one I just tested) You would get virtually 100% of available circuit voltage imposed on your body. only limited by your internal resistance.

Reply to
gfretwell

Yes, compaired to the human body resistance the 150 watt light bulb might as well be a piece of wire. It takes less than 10 % of that ammount of current to kill. The neon bulbs often have a resistor in series with them and it is large enough to limit the current to a level that is probalby not life threatning if outsode the body and jus ton the skin.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

As to wiring it properly, it's not clear to me what this other wire that was part of the alarm flashing was all about, but if it's a wire by itself or a wire in another cable separate from the hot, then it's not code compliant to use it as the neutral for the timer.

Reply to
trader_4

But as far as advancing, AFAIK X-10 hasn't advanced at all in a decade. It's low end stuff and while it can be fine for certain applications, it's certainly not what I'd use for any home automation where you want it to work reliably. For starters, all communication is one way, with no acknowledgment. Nor have I seen any new devices, any new tech, anything invested in it by any company in years.

Reply to
trader_4

+1

Maybe Micky wants to volunteer to test it out and see what kind of "tingle" he gets.

Reply to
trader_4

A 100W light bulb has ~.8A running through it when it's at operating temp. Cold, the resistance is probably about 10 ohms, giving it the potential to put up to 12A through you. In your test, the light bulb is not a safety device, limiting the current. What would limit the current is the resistance of your body in the circuit, which is orders of magnitude higher than that of the cold light bulb. And your "tingle" test has the potential to kill someone.

Reply to
trader_4

I have a handful of X10 stuff here I got in a bundle from Ebay but about all I use it for is accent lighting way down in the back yard. It is pretty picky about where I plug the controller in and I do have the crossover in my panel. It seems that if the circuit is too long, even on the same phase it gets flaky.

Reply to
gfretwell
[snip]

Radio Shack called theirs "Plug 'n' Power", although they were X10. I still have a few of those.

Reply to
Mark Lloyd

I had X-10 controlling some outside lights, and a couple inside lights. Worked fine for a couple years, then mysteriously one of the inside lights which was on one of the plug-in modules, would no longer respond. So, figured it was the module. Tried a couple new ones, they wouldn't work. Tried moving that one to another spot where it worked showing it was good. The location was one of the closer runs to the panel, not significantly different than the other ones that worked. Tried using a cap at the panel to couple the two legs, even tried moving the circuit to another breaker on the same leg as the source module. Nothing would make it work. That remains one of the big X-10 mysteries. And nothing had changed in the house, ie no new eqpt, etc.

Like you say, it's good for non-critical stuff if it works. And it's real cheap.

Reply to
trader_4

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.