Can I do this? Electrical

which WOULD allow the timer to work. Not Kosher, but workable.

Would only happen if the ground were to be "lifted" and the current is in the range of 5 ma.

Just one. An open EGC.

The hazard would still be there with the light turned off.

Just one. An open EGC.

The hazard would still be there with the light turned off.

I was looking for one of those, and could have really used that (the NAME FOR IT) when asking about where to find one.

ther faults, wouldn't it?

Well, here's my thought process, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you'd need two faults. You'd need an open EGC, I agree. But remember the way he's wi ring it, the lamp current goes back to the neutral, only the timer current goes to ground. The timer only carries 5 mA, so it must be inherently high resistance. So in order for the ground to become hazardous, wouldn't the EGC AND the timer internal resistance have to both fail? What am I missing ?

Often tied together?

Next!

Following the laws of physics, that isn't going to happen. The current would be between his hack and the panel.

Every metal wallplate and every grounded appliance will have that potential current on it. It is possible that you could touch an appliance and a water faucet at the same time and get zapped.

Only if the ground and neutral are not bonded together at the panel. Every panel I've seen has been bonded and it;s one of the most basic code requirements since there were code requirements.

Oh, I get it. I could have done that. One of the 3 models on Amazon would work with CFL but only if it met the minimum draw, which was 40 watts (which iirc is 150 watt equivalent, which I think is what I'm using) but I bought one without that requirement. So I bought one that doesn't need a neutral wire after all. They promised it by 9PM if I bought it by noon.

I shouldn't be impressed. There have been messenger services that would deliver things quickly for over 100 years. In NYC inthe 70's there were lots of folks on bicycles dellivering financial stuff mostly, and my friend did that with his car. Maybe it's that it's only 10 dollars.

No, not even close.

A good idea if I could do it. .... I just called McGyver and he says I need a foil gum wrapper and two ping pong balls to do this.

I think you mean voltage.

Going down to where the ground wire is broken (if it ever gets broken.)

If it's broken, it will iiuc have 110 volts, but the moment the current begins to flow, the resistance of the timer/wall switch will lower it tremendously.

You could do this test yourself. Take a lamp, cut the cord down the middle and then cut the neutral wire, the wire that would have gotten plugged into the wide slot (whether the plug is polarized or not, one can tell which wire goes to the narrow slot and which would have gone the wide one, by looking or with a meter.) Plug the lamp in, then measure the voltage at the cut end of the wire from the lamp. it will be 110VAC or so but if you touch it, even if another** part of you is grounded , you'll only get the electricity that can squeeze through the lightbulb. **But don't let it flow through your heart, your torso. Don't hold the wire in one hand and use your other hand to ground yourself. Even if it is teeny and probably can't hurt you.

If it's not broken, even the voltage on the ground wire in question will be next to zero, because the wire is grounded. If there is some resistance in the wire between where you touch it and the fuse box, and of course there's maybe 0.00001 ohms or even 0.001 then the voltage present will be found with E=IR, say 0.001 x 0.005 amps which = 0.00005 volts.

And that is just that one ground wire and everything connected to it, not all the other ground wires in the house, which have to pass by the grounded busbar to get to the wire in question.

Right, all the connected grounds, but this is a light-circuit only, so that's the hall, front door light I think, dining room, kitchen, and range hood lights, and the grounds in the switch boxes. It won't include the ground pin on receptacles.

In this case, only the ground from the switch to the panel would carry current - and a very low current. The ground and neutral are "bonded" at the panel so the "ground current" would become "neutral current" at the panel. Not legal, but certainly a very low potential for danger "for someone who knows what they are doing" - particularly as a short term situation. That said, running "an extra wire" is not to code either unless we are talking individual conductors in a conduit, and runs a MUCH higher risk than using the ground for a neutral - particularly for "someone who really does NOT know what he is doing" MUCH better to "ballast" the switch with an incandescent (purely resistive) load or install a switch (timer) that does NOT require a neutral connection..

Nothing at all. Unless the timer fails there is barely enough "leakage current" to trip a GFCI device, and in order for the ground connections in the house to become "live" the bond between the neutral bus and the ground bus would have to become open. Even a high resistance fault on the bond would not cause a danger unless it was high enough that it could not pass that 5ma of current. (it might take

What kind of light bulb are you proposing to use? This is VERY DANGEROUS for those who"don't know what they are doing" Using something like an NE2 bulb would be safe. Using even a 1 watt incandescent COULD be fatal. Again, I stress IF YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT DO NOT TRY THIS!!!. And CERTAINLY do NOT advise others.

From what you have written here you do NOT know what the heck you are doing. If you want to kill yourself, that's up to you -

Note to all readers

DO NOT DO ANYTHING MIKEY SUGGESTS WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTRICITY - He does NOT have a CLUE what the hell he's talking about. PERIOD.

You got that right......

At least 30 years ago, I went to Radio Shack and bought a switch replacement module. I installed it in a room, and using some other items that go with this switch, I could have that light turn on, off, or dim it from a timer, or turn it on and off from a hand held remote, and install more of these switches in other rooms and each one has their own number on the master control and on the remote. Later on, I bought some modules that plug into an outlet, and could turn a lamp, my stereo and other stuff in the home, all from my remote or the master control. I even rigged up around 3000 watts of outdoor xmas lights on these modules and could turn them on and off a block away from home.

These modules cost around $15 each, (In the late 1980's) but were well worth the price.

I'm sure they have advenced these devices even more by now.

So, while this TROLL keeps pissing and moaning about his plan to burn his mommy's home to the ground using illegal wiring practices, he could have bought some of these modules and had the whole job done by now. But we all know that would end his trolling fun...

This TROLL probably dont know which end of an extension cord plugs into an outlet.

OK if you are not BSing, sorry about that

I think it would have taken me five minutes to trace that wire though

He was whining a week or so ago that I was being too hard on him, so I backed off, untill now. His ignorance of how things work makes him DANGEROUS. He asks a lot of questions, but really doesn't seem to learn much?