Builder did not leave enough room for standard fridge

Hello everyone. I thought I would stop here and ask everyone's advise about a problem that we have ran into on the house we are having built.

We have been building the house long distance and just moved to the area this week. We are supposed to close on the 25th.

We have ran into a problem with the fridge opening in the kitchen. The height and width seem fine, but there is a drawer and door in the cabinet corner that will open onto the fridge. The problem is that if you allow space for the drawer to open the depth of the fridge can not be any larger than 27 inches. A standard fridge is at a minimum of 34 inches, not including the door handle. We spent the evening going from store to store measuring and pricing cabinet depth fridges, and it looks like the ones that may work are about twice the price of regular fridges (about $1900 versus $1000 for the regular fridge). And it is questionable if the counter depth fridge will even work since they measure about 29 inches with handles. (we did find a fridge that measured under the well under the 27 depth but it was $2800)

We had our realtor meet us at the house today and she said that she didn't think it was a problem. She didn't think it would be a big deal to put a regular sized fridge there and just not use the door and/ or drawer.

I really think this is unacceptable. We have asked the the realtor and builder since the beginning what size fridge we should buy and they have told us repeatively that a standard size fridge would work. We never planned on spending so much for a fridge.

A picture of our kitchen from a couple of weeks ago can be found here (if is finished now):

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Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?

Thanks, Kris

Reply to
kris3432
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I feel your pain Kris, and if nothing has been left out of your story then it sure sounds to me like your realator and builder are both real assholes. I HATE people like that who won't admit to and correct their mistakes.

However, if they are standing firm on their positions and you have no detailed construction plans and nothing in writing about the installation suiting a "standard sized" fridge, you may be stuck.

Maybe you could find a "halfway solution" to the problem by giving up on using the drawer and, as it looks like the cabinet door hinges are on the right side, living with only being able to open that door partially.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Wisnia

Well I can't call the builder any names yet since he does not know about this problem yet and has not spoke to me about it.... but we are not very happy with the realtor at this point. I was under the impression that her job was to represent myself and my husband and it we had a problem that she would make it her problem, instead she seems to take the position that it is no big deal. (In a past problem a window on the front of the house was obviously misplaced and she didn't think it was a big deal either, but the builder was embarrassed about it and sent an crew to the house the same day a fixed it.) I just was wondering if I was being irrational bringing it to their attention and asking what could be done about it.

My personal opinion is that he should split the cost of the "upgrade" refrigerator with us.

Kris

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Reply to
kris3432

Well, I guess you could just take the cabinet out, but you just accomplish the same thing by not using the cabinet.

Reply to
Dave Bugg

...

I remember the previous conversation (and my advice as well... :()

Same thing goes as before, did you get the relationship of the realtor and yourself worked out or find out what fiduciary responsibility she had after the last snafu like I suggested? That would settle who's payroll she's on and give you either some leverage that she's not fulfilling her end of the bargain or let you know you aren't her primary client. W/O a clear understanding there, you're kinda' in limbo (again, or more accurately, still).

Second, I agree w/ Jeff -- what do the kitchen design drawings show and who drew and prepared and approved them? This is an obvious foopah to any even half-way experienced kitchen designer that shouldn't have shown up on the drawings. So, first question is, "is this what is _supposed_ to be there and are they installed where they're supposed to be?"

Again, until you know that you don't know what your standing really is on the issue.

Lastly, remember the last go-round? It started out the same way and as my Dad used to say when I was a kid, "Don't cry 'til you have something to cry about!" When you pointed out the previous problem, the builder was responsible and took care of it.

That bodes well that he's conscientious, even if your realtor is still (as I suggested last time) either on his payroll or simply a doofus. After I found out the deal on the design, I'd contact him and if it's not as supposed to be, I suspect he'll correct it. If it is, then, you've got a decision to make. I agree I think the arrangement as present is simply unacceptable, but it may cost you to get it fixed at this point if it is in line w/ the plans.

How you work it out in that case depends on how adamant you are about what you are willing to accept and live with (and remember, you're going to be living with it for a long time and it will probably only rankle more as the inconvenience continues and doesn't go away).

It's not possible to tell from the picture whether there would be room to insert a filler or make some other adjustment, but if the whole thing is complete, whatever (other than the special fridge) is going to entail some effort. There's where you need to know who's right/wrong...

If, otoh, the builder hasn't seen it himself as w/ the window, if he sees it, maybe he'll agree it sucks...

Again, while it's to late, I can't help but throw in a "told ya'" from my earlier advice that despite the distance you really needed to get down there and check up on what was going on much more frequently rather than just hope things worked out -- stuff like this always comes up and w/o some input, you're certainly at their mercy and it makes rectifying what could have been as simple as sending back a cabinet and getting a different one a major pita and real $$$ out of the builder's pocket. Of course, if he did make a mistake, that's part of the risk he assumes by not being more careful himself and relying on his crews, just as you took a chance to try to save some time/effort/trouble...

I do hope you get a satisfactory resolution and, based on the previous, incident, expect the builder will be more reasonable than the realtor (who I repeat, I think is incompetent at best, on the payroll of the developer at break-even, and a double-dipping two-faced crook at worst).

Reply to
dpb

It IS unacceptable.

Are the countertops finished yet? Do you have room to move the cabinet out by 12". Maybe you can get a 12" spacer panel from the cabinet manufacturer (they all make them) so you can move the cabinet 12" away from the fridge.

Reply to
Abe

I also feel your pain. We just moved into a mobile home from a house and did not realize that the fridge would not fit. I ended up cutting a wall in half in order to make it fit. Sometimes all you need is a bigger hammer!

Reply to
cryolox1

I'd say it's unacceptable and you have a very legitimate beef with the builder. I would contact him immediately. It's not rocket science to lay out a kitchen without a major malfunction like this. If they are this stupid, I'd be very concerned about what else they may have screwed up that you don't know about. I'd make a trip over there and do a careful inspection to see what else may be wrong.

And I don't think having to use a refrigerator with less depth and less room is the answer. And who is this real estate agent working for? If you hired her as a buyer's agent and she told you this is OK, I'd ask her what kind of an idiot does she take you for?. If she's the agent for the builder, then it makes more sense, but it's still amazingly stupid. You would think she would just say, OK, I see your point and I'll take it up with the builder. In any case, I'd do anything I could to minimize having her involved in this or anything else.

Reply to
trader4

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Woah, Nellie. You thought "your realtor" was there to represent YOU???

First off, you have a serious problem with that. I don't know what state you live in or what the laws are there, so I can only address New York law. In New York, the real estate agent represents the selling. The agent has a whole list of responsibilities to the seller, but only honesty and fairness to you. Every confidence that to tell the agent, if it to the advantage of the seller, the agent MUST tell the seller. But the agent cannot disclose confidences to you. So of course, the agent thought it was no problem. That's the agent's role. Plus the agent get's no commission if you don't close.

Now, if you've entered into a buyer's agent arrangement, then the situation is different. But in NYS, the agent had disclosures to make to you in either case.

So go find out who the agent works for.

Now, given that. Get out the plans and check the kitchen plans. See if the builder did what the plans say. If so, well you approved it. If not, the builder much correct it. If you want the builder to change what you approved, then you go discuss cost with him. Hopefully you have plans that an architect or engineer designed and stamped. Then they will help straighten it out. If some kitchen designer did it, then go talk to them if it isn't right and have them fix it.

My guess is that the building is doing something "off plans".

In any case, It would have it fixed and go with a larger fridge. If you don't, you hate your kitchen forever.

Good luck with it.

Reply to
Pat

Just make them give you an 8" narrower cabinet (I'm sure they special order them) and an 8" filler piece. You'll lose 8" of cabinet/drawer space, but not the whole cabinet. Or they could custom make a cabinet equally wide, but with a narrower door. This wouldn't deal with the drawer width the the cabinet space would be the same.

Reply to
Marilyn & Bob

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Is this a custom design, or one he has built before? If stock, are the others screwed up? Do you have plans showing the kitchen the way it is? If so, you have a problem. They will agree it is a compromise with usefulness, but given the space and design contraints it was the best they could do, and since you agreed to it.... If not, then you have a right to a properly designed kitchen.

There might not be a reasonable fix though. Putting the refrigerator there just isn't practical. Even if the builder wants to help you out, there might not be a way to do it; he won't pay for the expensive fridge and you probably wouldn't want it.

Reply to
Toller

Looks like the cabinet guys messed up made some type of filler cube in the corner (what a waste of space..there doesnt seem to be any access from the cabinet) and then dropped the base cabinet [ is it a 24" cabinet?] in there to the left of the fridge.

Wouldnt it be a lot cheaper to pull out the "cube" and the cabinet and replace that cabinet with a narrower one..say a15" or 18" with a blind corner base to allow some access to the corner area.

IMO, tinkering with one or two cabinets to get a proper clearance for the (standard) fridge would be a lot better than spending a pile of $$ on custom fridge,

If the cabinet "planner" won't eat the cabinets, use them in your laundry room or garage.

Reply to
Rudy

What does your floorplan state for sizes? If they screwed up, they should fix it ASAP. If you signed off on it, then you can ask for it to be fixed and ask How Much.

Reply to
Noozer

If I understand the pictures correctly, this is already a corner unit attached to a 12 or 14 inch base. There is already plenty of hard-to-reach space there. I think the proper answer is to replace the corner unit with a lasy susan base unit, like used to be standard for 'problem' corners in kitchens. The filler panel on the return side next to fridge opening looks big enough, bt no way to tell for sure without being there.

aem sends...

Reply to
aemeijers

I'm pretty sure that even in NYS, which representing the seller might be the most common or the assumption or even the default, a contract can be written so that the agent represents the buyer.

In addition, the situation here is that a home is being built. Is it being built to the order of the buyer, or does the builder own it until a sale is made after construction?

To the OP, I am not sure what else is meant to be on the left side of the picture. The fridge goes on the back wall right, and to the left of it is only cabinets.

Seems to me the cabinets should be redone, not that you should buy a different fridge. Even if they were to pay the extra 900 dollars (and I think it would be cheaper for them to redo the cabinets, no?) what happens the next time you need a fridge. Will they even make one that size then.

What is so hard about moving the cabinets closer to the camera, to the left along the wall?

What sort of cabinet is just to the left of the fridge? It has no doors. Can you store things there from the cabinet to its left. I have a space like that, and it's not very useful, but I keep things I rarely use in it, and I can get to them if I have to. At any rate, the system for that will probably be the same no matter what, just that can't that cabinet/space extend closer to the camera?

Reply to
mm

Even if the countrer top is finished, he's got proof positve that the builder did something wrong if he can't put a standard frigde there and still use the drawer and the door.

If the builder is going to claim that he OKAYed this, let him show that he was told and he SIGNED off on it.

OP, your testimony is evidence. It's not the only possible evidence but why would you ever agree to this in advance, when it easily could ave been done differently, when now you will have to spend MORE money to get a SMALLER refridgerator. No one would have agreed to that.

Just make sure you don't sign something that says you accept the house as is,

If you can't resolve this before move in time, move in and don't sign the as is. If he refuses to let you move in, say you're going to sue him for all your hotel bills, your extra moving and storage expenses, as you store all your furniture in a warehouse, and have to load and unload it from the truck a secodn time, plus any damages to your possession on the second load and unload.

You've got an extensive paper record that the house was built for you and you are relying on that. He can't sell it to someone else now if the only thing under dispute is the placement of the cabninets or the price of a fridge.

I am not a lawyer.

Reply to
mm

OH yeah, when the time comes sue both of them. Otherwise, she'll say it's his fault and he'll say it's her fault at the separate trials. By having on ly one trial, they can do this but the judge decides.

I'm not sure in every state you can sue both in small claims court.

Remind them of how much time they will have to spend in court, and they will lose, and get the builder to just fix it now.

If she is the builder's agent, I think she is as liable as the builder.

Is this the same person who was having trouble with his agent out of town a month or two ago?

Reply to
mm

I get it now. The cabinets end just before the doorway. So you do have to make the first one narrower, or like someone said, make the door narrower, I don't know what to do about the drawer..... well, gEt a whole new cabinet with no drawer, and one more shelf inside the narrower door.

Reply to
mm

I have not seen the plans that YOU provided, but if you had anything at all to do with the design then you need to fix this NOW at YOUR expense.

The cabinets definitely need to come out rather than everybody having to find a special fridge. I don't see the big deal. Just do it and worry about who pays later. Read the first paragraph again.

No, the Realtor sells houses, she is not a construction foreman. If you did something long-distance, then you did a poor job. Again the problem is 90% yours. You are the honcho on this and you screwed up with your design.

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Reply to
HomerS

I'm a painter, in the last 2 years or so I have started seeing the walls behind the fridge recessed for this purpose. So imagine the wall with no cupboards comes along and at fridge point is is set back 4", or 3 1/2", the depth of the stud, outlet for fridge is in side of this recess. Builder may be able to do this for you, wouldn't cost a fortune to cut out drywall, a couple studs and have electricain move outlet over. This is assuming not on an outside wall of course.

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Reply to
Greg

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