If I understand the pictures correctly, this is already a corner unit
attached to a 12 or 14 inch base. There is already plenty of hard-to-reach
space there. I think the proper answer is to replace the corner unit with a
lasy susan base unit, like used to be standard for 'problem' corners in
kitchens. The filler panel on the return side next to fridge opening looks
big enough, bt no way to tell for sure without being there.
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:18:10 -0700, email@example.com wrote:
OH yeah, when the time comes sue both of them. Otherwise, she'll say
it's his fault and he'll say it's her fault at the separate trials.
By having on ly one trial, they can do this but the judge decides.
I'm not sure in every state you can sue both in small claims court.
Remind them of how much time they will have to spend in court, and
they will lose, and get the builder to just fix it now.
If she is the builder's agent, I think she is as liable as the
Is this the same person who was having trouble with his agent out of
town a month or two ago?
I'm not being overy cynical but you (the OP) is only ASSUMING that the
cabinets are in wrong. It could also be that the cabinets are as
approved and that the room has been made smaller by misplacement of
walls OR (and this is scary) that the house is the wrong size and
everything got measured from the outside walls.
While both of these scenarios are unlikely, I thing the OP can't go
any farther without reviewing the plans and getting some accurate
Is this a custom design, or one he has built before? If stock, are the
others screwed up?
Do you have plans showing the kitchen the way it is? If so, you have a
problem. They will agree it is a compromise with usefulness, but given the
space and design contraints it was the best they could do, and since you
agreed to it....
If not, then you have a right to a properly designed kitchen.
There might not be a reasonable fix though. Putting the refrigerator there
just isn't practical. Even if the builder wants to help you out, there
might not be a way to do it; he won't pay for the expensive fridge and you
probably wouldn't want it.
I get it now. The cabinets end just before the doorway. So you do
have to make the first one narrower, or like someone said, make the
door narrower, I don't know what to do about the drawer..... well,
gEt a whole new cabinet with no drawer, and one more shelf inside the
I have not seen the plans that YOU provided, but if you had anything
at all to do with the design then you need to fix this NOW at YOUR
The cabinets definitely need to come out rather than everybody having
to find a special fridge. I don't see the big deal. Just do it and
worry about who pays later. Read the first paragraph again.
No, the Realtor sells houses, she is not a construction foreman. If
you did something long-distance, then you did a poor job. Again the
problem is 90% yours. You are the honcho on this and you screwed up
with your design.
Kris -- "Counter-depth refrigerators" are a standard item and help achieve a
"built-in" look. From the picture it appears the corner cabinets are mostly
wasted volume due to inaccessibility no matter what kind of refrigerator you
buy, and when you add the larger refrigerator that part of the kitchen is
going to be unattractive and appear very crowded. Also, with the larger
refrigerator your cabinets over the refrigerator are going to be very
difficult to use.
If this were my house I would do two things --
(A) Extend the lower corner cabinet out and provide a double-opening door,
with a lazy-susan interior to let you use the space. This will give you a
lot more cabinet space for things like pots and pans and storage units than
you now have. I would also consider doing the same thing with the upper
corner cabinet, although that space is more accessible. This also means a
change to the counter-top to fit the new counter dimensions. Save the old
cabinet and use it in the garage for storage or tools.
(B) Buy a counter-depth refrigerator to make that end of the kitchen more
usable and appear less crowded. This will also make the overhead cabinets
more accessible and useful. (If my budget were big enough in this case I
might even try for a built-in refrigerator, but now you're talking real $.)
Making these changes will provide a better appearance and more useful
Sidenote: With new construction I don't think these sorts of conflicts are
unusual, and a good homebuyer ought to hold an additional 10-20% of the
price in reserve to meet needs that weren't anticipated when the project was
first planned -- whether it's interior upgrades, new equipment, or changes
that create new requirements such as for irrigation, storm protection,
revised building codes or a security system. -- In other words, I don't
think problems like this are unexpected, they're just imperfections that
will cost money and have to be dealt with. If the contractor was also the
designer you may have some leverage, but if he is building to someone else's
design these may be costs you have to deal with. Been there, done that --
I'm a painter, in the last 2 years or so I have started seeing the walls
behind the fridge recessed for this purpose. So imagine the wall with no
cupboards comes along and at fridge point is is set back 4", or 3 1/2", the
depth of the stud, outlet for fridge is in side of this recess. Builder may
be able to do this for you, wouldn't cost a fortune to cut out drywall, a
couple studs and have electricain move outlet over. This is assuming not on
an outside wall of course.
Sound great -- as you have found out there is NO SUCH THING AS A STANDARD
SIZED FRIDGE -- any more than there is a standard sized person. They
designed it, they should supply you with a list of makes and models that
will fit their cabinet design, or, hopefully, you can get them to re-do the
kitchen -- fat chance.
Builder pay for your error? No way. It is part of the plan you should
have considered, and hindsight is always 20/20 :o)
Hubby and I were looking at cabinet depth fridge, but they were too high
for our kitchen (unless we raise a wall cab.)...prices weren't that
Can't tell by the photo what is in the corner to left of frigge...if not
too late, can all cabinets be moved forward from the back wall to allow
for deeper fridge? If the kitchen work has progressed too far, then it
would cost more, probably, to move cabs. than to pay more for fridge.
We have a drawer limited by the fridge, but I just keep small stuff in
it that doesn't require it be opened all the way. Price and size of
your kitchen appliances should have been planned for from the git-go.
Enjoy your new house .. it's pretty.
Insufficient data to know whose error it is...but, if plan calls for as
stupid an arrangement as this appears to be, the "reasonable" doctrine
could come into play if it were to go so far as a suit (which, of
course, is not what I'm advocating either).
Can you please explain to me how exactly the cabinet issue is MY
error. I was told from the beginning that it would fit a standard size
fridge. And, now when I go to buy a fridge and measure I discover
that it lacks 7 inches of clearance.
I am not exactly sure whose fault it is, but I am pretty sure that I
do not hold all or even most of the blame.
It's an opinion, and not well-formed one. Relies on the assumption
you had plans to review/approve that show that what is installed is the
actual layout on those plans. There's insufficient data to available to
I suspect the answer given by the builder was entirely accurate as far
sas it went -- a standard width fridge will fit the opening -- as I
mentioned earlier, it would be quite surprising if this is a
multiple-house development as it appears it must be that the builder
actually took sufficient time himself to address the question in more
detail than to confirm it's a 34 or 36 or whatever it is wide opening
and responding "sure"...
The issue is that a "standard size" fridge should fit the space. I have
no idea what a "standard size" fridge is - mine is 31.5" deep from wall
tofront of fridge, not including the handles. You said you kept asking
what size fridge you should buy.......sounds like a cop-out to me. You
must have had drawings before you signed a contract, I hope. The size
of appliances, along with cost, features and arrangement are one of the
very most basic and costly parts of the plan. First-time home buyers
are bound to make mistakes or overlook things that they think of too
late. It may be possible to get a fridge - not side-by-side - that will
allow the cab. door and drawer to open if the fridge door is open.
Might also be able to change the cabinet door to open from left side
(hinge on right) to get into that.
We had a house built and also had the same problem. No magic solution
I am afraid. In the end we went for a Counter Dept fridge at about $US
3,000 - ish. It was a while back.
Even though we had an architech design the house. The only way I think
to effectively have a "Standard" fridge is to have a closet, or some
nich in an adjoining room that you can push the fridge into. Most
cabinets are 24 inch in dept. Most counter dept fridges are 27 inches.
The extra 3 inches is O.K. What you see is just the doors coming out,
the body is flush. You need to have the doors sticking a bit out
anyway because otherwise you would need a gap on each side of the
fridge to allow for door swing clearance. Difficult to explain, but
the corners of the doors when used will push out sideways maybe 1/2 to
and inch when you open them.
There are fridges that are 100% flush. However even they "cheat" in
that they are more than the standard 24 inches. So you effectively
waste 3 inches of space behind the cabinets. See Sub Zero.
That builder must be a nut. In my time I had 6 houses, a cabin built and
never had that problem. I don't remember hearing about it until now.
Didn't you go over the blue print B4 building started?
Sorry to hear that. Maybe kitchen has to be redone at least partially?
On or about Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:39:13 -0700 did kris3432
That just strikes me as an incredibly stupid place to design in a
Here's a quick and dirty take on how I'd do that kitchen, based on
what I can tell from the picture:
The space for the fridge is replaced by a normal countertop with
cabinet underneath, and a full cabinet above.
The corner is replaced with a single unit that has a lazy susan
underneath. Maybe something similar on top, too.
The fridge then goes near the end of the wall, under a half cabinet up
top. Doing that, you can leave enough space for an especially large
fridge, but still put a smaller one in without there seeming to be a
huge gap between cabinets. I drew in a bottom-freezer french-door
fridge as an example.
I can't really say how reasonable it would be for you to demand a
change like that (or however you'd want to do it), since I don't know
how many opportunities you had to correct the design before it was
built. But I would definitely not be happy with the design in your
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