Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)

[Danny D'Amico]

That's a very nice find, especially since three things appear to have been blown when I turned the power off without turning off the generator:

1. The ELK TRG140 16.5V AC transformer secondary windings are now open
2. The D135A battery-protection board cap is apparently blown
3. The Radionics D2212B alarm circuit board is apparently malfunctioning

The test of the Radionics board was to hook the battery directly to the power and ground leads. That drew 98ma and the alarm system merely beeped an incessant single beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep for the entire time that I left the battery connected.

[Danny D'Amico]

There were unused leads for two batteries, so, I suspect there were two batteries in series initially. The battery in there now doesn't look all that old. The equipment was made in the 90s as you surmised.

[Danny D'Amico]

That is the most direct test I could have run, so, following your advice, I took the power and ground leads coming out of the alarm system board and plugged them directly into the battery, which was at 13.5 volts.

The current draw was 98 ma.

But the only thing that happened was the alarm system made a single beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep that lasted the entire time that the battery was connected.

I tried this, multiple times, for no longer than the time it took to snap this picture though, as I didn't want to ruin anything further.

[Danny D'Amico]

I'm surprised you knew *where* the transformer leads entered the board, because I didn't say, so, but I see what you're talking about.

Also, I'm surprised you knew that was a bridge rectifier, because, well, because I didn't - but - looking at it from the side, I can see four uninsulated legs, which indicate it has four leads, one of which is marked "+".

Here is the same picture, but, with a few things marked that I know of (including the electrolytic capacitor I think you're talking about):

I looked and touched and that cap seems OK visually; but, of course, it's probably 20 years old...

For the first time, I'm wondering if it's not just a new transformer, but, that I probably need to replace the entire board...

[doug]

You could try

for a used replacement board, bearing in mind that any used replacement board is likely to be close to the same age as yours.

I would tend to upgrade to a current system.

Doug

[Michael A. Terrell]

It's more likely that there were problems, and the situation wouldn't let it start working again.

[Danny D'Amico]

Any recommendations, given my goal would be to use all the existing equipment except the board itself and the power supply?

[trader4]

I think you're screwed. But I like the meter. I have the same one, going on 30 years now.

[Danny D'Amico]

Yeah. I've blown the 'bar' inside for the 10A fuse (my fault) and, I've had to replace the disc-shaped battery once (or twice?) but mine has to be from the early or mid 80s and it's still going strong.

It's strange that all three things are bad:

1. The power transformer secondary blew open
2. The battery-tender capacitor overheated
3. The main circuit board isn't working

I wonder what my options are ...

[trader4]

If you can verify that the board has proper power on it from a battery and it's still not working, I'd say it's time to buy a new panel. You can get them for $150 or so.

[Danny D'Amico]

That's probably what I'm going to have to do.

Meanwhile, ELK called me back and explained the "limited" part of the "lifetime warranty" on the AC transformer. The service technician said mine has a PTC fuse in the secondary.

He said ELK will replace it for free as long as it was used within the specifications of the device, e.g., in an approved alarm system (which it was).

They told me I could send it to them, or, I could contact these local "trade distributors" to see if they would work with a homeowner:

1. Home Tech Solution 408-257-4406
2. Custom Electronics Supply 408-452-8300
3. 800-762-7846

So, at the very least, I'll get the transformer replaced, under warranty, by one of those four. Also, I'll ask all of them how much they sell the board I need.

BTW, must I get the exact same board? Or can *any* alarm system board suffice?

[doug]

You will need keypads to match the replacement board, the sensors should be OK although you may have to change the EOL resistors (if they are used).

If you have any 2 wire smoke detectors you may have to check compatibility with the new panel.

Doug

[trader4]

I would not replace just the board, unless you can find the exact replacement at a good price. I would replace the alarm panel.

[Danny D'Amico]

I do have smoke alarms but don't know how they're wired.

Likewise, I have motion detectors and mostly hard-wired door/window switches, but some are wireless (the repair ones mostly).

I called a few outfits today looking for the D2212B(LT) control board:

Apparently Bosch (who bought Radionics) won't sell to a consumer, so I'll need to get the D2212B board from either a distributor or dealer.

They retail about $100 to $125 but they're almost all out of stock on the web pages that I've found them listed.

If I buy a new board that is not the D2212B, am I to conclude I *must* go with Bosch/Radionics since I do have wireless devices?

[Danny D'Amico]

Replacing the alarm panel is fine by me, but, I spoke to someone at Bosch who said that the "frequencies are different" for each manufacturer.

Is that true?

Seems to me that an alarm system as a simple job. If the switch is open, ring the alarm.

Why wouldn't the wired and wireless alarm devices on the doors and windows be compatible with *any* manufacturer?

Is it true that only a Bosch/Radionics panel will work with Bosch/Radionics controllers and Bosch/Radionics switches and motion and smoke detectors?

[Danny D'Amico]

You're not kidding!

I called Bosch/Radionics at 800-538-5807 who told me they have plenty of D2212B(LT) boards in stock (the LT, they told me, simply means it comes without the external transformer in the kit).

But they can't sell them to me. They told me to go to Anixer or ADI.

So, I call Anixer at 925-469-8500, who says they can't sell the board to me, due to their legal agreements. I have to get it from a contractor as a "pass-through" (whatever that means).

So, this seems to be the path of the board: Bosch/Radionics sells it to Anixer who sells it to the pass-through contractor who sells it to me.

I wonder what the markup is each time?

Anyway, now I am looking for a "pass though" contractor, whatever that means. I mean, I realize it's an "installer"; but, I don't want an installer. I want a pass-through guy to just send me the board.

What do I google for? (The Anixer guys couldn't tell me.)

Now for the ADI guys ... 800.233.6261 ... ... they won't sell it to me either. I need a contractor's license. Sheesh.

It's getting to be harder to get a stinkin' alarm system replacement board than it was to get garage door torsion springs! :)

Does anyone know how I can find a "pass through" contractor?

[Tony Hwang]

Hmmm, If the control board does not solve the problem, then what?

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, You are thinking analog, now most any thing is digital. Even reelays are solid state devies, no electro mechanical things.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Run an ad on Kijiji saying you are looking for an alarm tech who could help your situation. If some one respond, deal is no fix, no pay. Lot of legit guys do a side job when he is off regular work. I am lucky if I had a situation like that, just phone my old buddies still on the job. They will send some one to help me out or give me some thing I need. I retired from Honeywell. They have building protection division.

[Danny D'Amico]

Normally I don't throw parts at a problem.

But,

1. The transformer is clearly bad (open secondary). So I have one on order and another coming in via warranty repair. But, this is not mandatory for operation anyway.

1. The battery protection board clearly has a capacitor that has melted leads on the underside. What I plan on doing there is replacing the capacitor; but this is not an important board for operation either.

2. When I put 12VDC to the main circuit board, it beeps a long beep, and nothing else happens.

So, what does that tell me?

It *could* be that the board simply needs to be "reset", so, I'll read all the manuals I found here:

Or, it could be that the battery is bad. So, I'll charge the battery and test it under load, to see if that's the problem (but I don't think it is simply because the board is only drawing 100ma at 12VDC).

Or, it could be that the D2212B circuit board is bad. If that's the case, I'll try to troubleshoot it by testing where the power goes when I plug in the battery.

But, the board should only cost about $100 so it's not all that bad to just replace it. Bosch says they have plenty in stock, so, all I have to do is find someone who will sell them to me as a pass through:

Bosch sells the board to ADI or to Anixer, who then sells it to a pass-through contractor who sells it to me.

If the board doesn't work, then I'd be surprised; but it would then be time to replace the entire shebang.