I understand if you're scared or intimidated but as I've pointed out here,
the same argument was used when R-22 was introduced. It didn't hold water
then and doesn't now either.
POE? Been using it for years in refrigeration, I don't know about brilliant
but I assure you that if you don't use good workmanship when opening a
system you'll say it sucks.
Nah, only if you're scared of something different - change would be another
word for it. It's no surprise that this industry is like the rest of the
human race and doesn't like change but with a little education on how
different R410a is NOT maybe we can clear up these misunderstandings. I
don't know that I'm 100% that 410a is the absolute replacement for 22 but it
seems so at this point and equipment is performing well with 410a. I'll
reserve final judgement myself on it until the industry settles down but
until then we'll use what we have.
Haha I do not recall saying I was, "scared or intimidated ", by R410.
More comments inserted below.
IMO, Puron was a marketing decision. If you disagree thats OK by me.
I never heard anyone complain that R22 used POE.
So we agree then. As we both know good workmanship is not the norm so we
can expect POE to be a problem.
Gald we cleared that up (-:
You are correct systems are performing just fine with R410. And the pressure
debate is muted by proper design.
You are also correct refer techs will get this right. That's a given but
NOT applicable to R410 use.
There is no way I believe you believe the average RESIDENTIAL tech out there
gives one hoot about proper method. It's a gas-n-go world.
Amway's your biggest argument seems to be saying it scares me, I'm not
trained, I don't understand basic refrigeration, etc.
I'm not sure attacking me makes R410 a good thing .
In closing, R410 sucks (-:
I do disagree, and it's fine with me if you disagree with that. :-)
OK, as you can see - this response was to the lose an eye comment, the POE
comment is below. The complaints were that R22 was running so high
pressures the jugs were going to explode and it might put someone's eye
Yep, I'll be glad when the hacks can't afford insurance to cover their screw
ups and the trade benefits from the resulting better quality of technician.
Then let the industry change. Maybe it will increase the wages for
technicians and improve the quality of work provided to homeowners if we get
rid of the ignorant techs. I believe that the average RESIDENTIAL tech
should give a hoot about proper methods and if the owner of the company
sends the slacker out to do a job, he should be strung up as well.
Attacking? I haven't attacked anyone. I debated your comments on R-410a.
I simply stated that the tone of your post was that the pressures related to
410 were dangerous, i.e. "someone's going to lose an eye" and that that
interpretation was fallible.
I understand the humor you scatter throughout your reply but I must say that
the overall message seems to be that R-410 won't work because the industry
is riddled with poor workmanship and complacent technicians. I say that the
substandard work can stop and the industry can move forward. I'm not sure
saying the industry is unable to grasp the concept makes R410 a bad thing,
doesn't it sound like possibly the industry is the bad thing and needs a bit
haha yeah the "lose an eye" was meant as a joke as is common. I should use
more smileys (-:
Yes thats it. I have 0 faith in my fellow tech. I think it will get worse
and never get better.
South Florida is bad and most all techs are the gas-n-go types. No one
wants to turn down work so owners hire as best they can. Its fubar for
The labor pool has been drained and refilled with whats available.
oh yeah 410 sucks (-:
[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 13:14:24 GMT, "American Mechanical"
When they design the systems for flushing oil as MVAC units are, POE is no
big deal. The best workmanship in the world won't help POE in a system
that leaked out do to some failure and has had time to absorb moisture.
The MVAC industry addressed this a long time ago.
Personal home page - http://gogood.com
gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots
Make your decision based on the quality of the installation as well as your
personal preference. At this point, the system you install today will not
see over priced repairs due to R-22. It will be at replacement age before
anyone has to worry about it. I'm neither for or against 410a, it's a
personal preference choice.
email@example.com (Drew Farris) wrote in message
There are strong arguments to be made either way.
1. Because of the investment in training and equipment required, and
the relative difficulty working with it, you're less likely to deal
2. Manufacturers focus R&D on 410 because 22 is obsolescent. For
instance, all Lennox two-speed equipment is 410.
3. The compressors are supposedly more robust at present -- they're
overbuilt. The mfrs also may provide longer warranties on 410
1. It works!
2. Everything's cheaper at the moment.
3. Easy replacement in your case.
Anyhow, suggest you rephrase your question and ask at HVAC-talk.com.
You can't ask pricing questions, and leave the 410 v. 22 out of it.
Just post the model numbers the dealers are proposing and ask what
Also, since you're an early adopter, you might want to break out your
money shovel and invest in Carrier's Infinity system or its Bryant
This is Turtle.
I do this type of business for a living and have watched a lot of shinning star new
freons come and go. I watched R-12 , R-500 ,
R-134-A , come and go and still see R-22 still the norm. Now I'm seeing R-410-A or
AZ-20 coming for A/C units. I have been tricked
too may times to jump on the band wagon just yet. In another 4 or 5 years when it is
truely decided to be the norm. i will join the
band wagon to go with it. For now R-22 is a winner but in the near future R-410-A or
AZ-20 may be the norm.
Have you concidered using AZ-20 in stead of R-410-A ?
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