Generator power to gas furnace???

I'd like to be able to have temporary power hooked into my gas furnace in case of a prolonged power outage. Been digging through the electrical code. Not at all clear what's likely to pass muster. Don't want to talk to local inspectors until I have something likely to work.

Power outages are rare. I just don't want the plumbing to freeze in the unlikely event of a prolonged winter storm.

I can run a few lights off an extension cord. But the furnace is permanently connected. What are the ramifications of that? I have a mostly empty box on the wall. Wire comes in the bottom and goes out the front through conduit to the furnace. Wire nuts inside the furnace box connect it up.

It's interesting that the box is insulating with a metal cover plate and no ground connection except from the furnace ground back thru the conduit. Sounds like it's already in violation of code??? House was built in 1972.

Is there any code passing way to get a connector in that wire? Either inside the wall box or inside the furnace box? A connector would let me get it completely disconnected from the main power and wired up to the temporary generator. What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly? I'm in Oregon, USA.

I'd like to avoid having to pull the wire nuts out of the metal cage inside the furnace to disconnect it. Connector would remove the error terms.

Reply to
mike
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Mike I can understand what you trying to do, but my friend you are playing with your self, if you want emergency switch over to Generator hire you self license Electrician and install switchover on main line coming into your house and then use your circuit breakers to put on what you want and off what you don't want to go on, wouldn't that be simpler.

Reply to
Grumpy

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Reply to
.p.jm.

Call your local electrician

Call your local electrician

Call your local electrician

Connectors will not pass muster, call your local electrician

Call your local electrician. He will be familier with all of your local code requirements and can make sure its done correctly and to code.

One foot of good wire beats a mile of firehose every time.

Reply to
Steve

Reply to
.p.jm.

I called my electrician to double check my work and sign off on it before I called the inspector.

Reply to
Steve

AS will I. But I want to learn my options before I start spending money.

Reply to
mike

*YOU* need to call an electrician *FIRST* to see what you need to do, and how to do it.

This tells me that you don't have a clue.....

[quote]Is there any code passing way to get a connector in that wire? Either inside the wall box or inside the furnace box? A connector would let me get it completely disconnected from the main power and wired up to the temporary generator. What UL markings would I need on the connector assembly? I'm in Oregon, USA.[end quote]

Call an electrician before you cause damage to life, limb, and/or property.

Reply to
Steve

You betcha. Would also be simpler to get rid of the wife... oh wait...already did that.

With all the "advice" given here, I'd expect that at least one of you guys IS a licensed electrician. So, I AM, in effect, asking a licensed electrician or three right here and now.

I've been in this house almost 40 years. I can count significant power outages on two fingers. I don't need a permanent generator installation. I have the generator. Be a shame to forgo the means to use it if the need ever arises.

I asked a simple question: How do I put a connector in a line to a permanently attached appliance, a furnace, that meets the national electrical code when the connector is hooked up normally to utility power. I'll deal with local issues after I get some ideas.

Reply to
mike

Sure, I did this a couple years ago when we knew a major ice storm was coming. When the lights went out, I wend down and unwired the furnace from the permanent wiring and put a plug on the wires. When it got cold enough to need it, I fired up the generator and ran extension cords to the furnace and refrigerator. 90 minutes on the generator every 6 hours or so was all it took to stay reasonably comfortable.

This was all a temporary hack, as this sort of storm is quite rare here, too. If you want totally installed wiring for emergency loads, an electrician can wire up an emergency panel, but it will be somewhat expensive to separate those loads from all the rest in the house.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

You don't. And yes, I'm a licensed Master Electrician.

Reply to
.p.jm.

Who the hell cares about NEC for a one-time situation. Make sure you have a REALLY good flashlight. I have one with a 5 Lb gel-cell battery that was made out of a building emergency lighting unit. The lamp is essentially a lawn tractor headlight. It took me no more than 10 minutes to collect the tools and rewire the house wiring to a standard wall plug right on the side of the furnace junction box. So, the wires out of the furnace went to a dangling plug. I dragged outdoor-style extension cords through the house to the furnace room and plugged the furnace into the cord.

Having a HUGE flashlight made this job much easier as I didn't have to hold it.

As for some way to have the furnace permanently wired with a plug that normally plugs into a socket seems like it should be possible, but the NEC has all sorts of insane restrictions against things that seem logical at first. Probably you can do this with the correct wiring appliances, though.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

I went down to city hall and talked to the electrical inspector. He said, "cut the furnace wire, install a plug, plug it into an outlet." I quizzed him about the permanent attachment of a furnace. He said, "I know of no requirement preventing a gas furnace from being plugged in to an outlet." I tried again: "the wire comes out of a box on the wall and goes to the furnace. If I cut the wire, install a plug, install a socket in the box and plug it in, that will pass your inspection as a permanent installation?" He said, "Yes."

That easily solves my problem.

I didn't have the citation handy, but rereading sections 400.7-400.8 suggests that unless the furnace is on wheels ;-), I can't use a flexible cord. Not clear whether I can put a plug on a non-flexible cord or whether that resolves any code issues.

Am I overthinking this? Is the inspector incompetent?

Reply to
mike

WTF is a 'non-flexible cord' ?

Yes.

Reply to
.p.jm.

Appears that you're not yet tired of being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious. Article 400 talks about flexible cables. Cables not covered by that section are what I meant by non-flexible cables.

Yet again, nothing educational. Glad to have your non-input.

Reply to
mike

Solid wire like Romex. And no you cannot.

Reply to
The King

I never heard Romex referred to as 'cord' before.

Up north, they call it 'wire' or 'cable'. Down here in teh south, they call it 'wair'. as in 'I'm a gonna carry my momma down to the store to get some wair to put in her house. I gots to needs be re-wair it'.

Reply to
.p.jm.

find the line from the breaker box and the furnace-install a switch in that wire preferably close to the furnace-install a duplex outlet between that switch and the furnace-make a up a piece of Romex that will run between the area close to your genny and furnace permanently- on the furnace end of the romex install a HD male plug-on the other end mount a metal work box close to your Genny and inside that connect the romex to a HD outlet-then you can make an short extension cord out of romex that will be exclusivley for this purpose because its either going to have a male connector on both ends or you can use a twstlok on the genny side(which gives you more capacity on most gennys) and a HD male plug on the other.when the power goes out first flip the switch by the furnace which makes sure you dont have a problem if the power comes back on -then plug your cord into the duplex by the furnace(which you could have plugged in all the time for an extra outside outlet) then plug in the special double male romex ext cord and that will get you thru any emergency.I'm assuming your genny is a smaller 4-7KW unit that you will run outside-so this gives you an extra outside outlet when everything is normal and the switch is allowing breaker box power to run to your furnace(and the installed outlet) and it gives you a place to plug in the special ext cord quickly when you have an emergency-and you could even instruct your family on how to do this if you arent home when the power goes out.Now I'm sure I'm going to catch all kind of hell from you electricians-but I and my nieghbors in SW Pa were without power for 28 days last winter and we were snowed in-this setup allowed me to keep everyone alive and well with only 2 gennys for 5 houses - and it would let me do it again tomorrow if I had to.

Reply to
GEOD998

My first thought was a variation on this. Use a 3-way switch so there's no possibility of backfeeding the main. Anybody looking at how it's wired, would probably be concerned. Problem is that the existing box in the wall is one-wide. Full-size 3-way switches are rated and marked for 377VAC. The combo switch/receptacle switches are marked for 125VAC. Probably the same guts inside, but still, the marking ain't right. If the power comes back on while the generator is running, you can get

320VAC or so between switch poles. Combo switch ain't marked for that.

Last time the inspector was out, he failed the "Professionally installed by licensed electrician" work because the new breakers had the wrong stickers on 'em. He didn't even look at the wiring...just the stickers.

But, I digress...

So, still have to turn off the main breaker. But if you're gonna turn off the main breaker, might as well use an existing receptacle for the suicide cord.

My washer receptacle is a dedicated branch circuit with 20A breaker. Perfect place to plug the suicide cord from a 20A generator. It feeds back into the same phase of the system and back out the breaker to the furnace. I could also run the lights for the whole back side of the house on that side of the breaker box.

The electrons would see this as a rational thing to do. But the lawyers and regulators and inspectors wouldn't agree. So, I'm trying to do something that's easy, safe and legal.

Would be trivial to add a connector behind the access panel inside the furnace. But I've got 9 more years on the warranty. Don't want any chance of them voiding the warranty 'cause I tampered with the furnace.

Reply to
mike

when the suicide cord is unplugged there is NO chance of anything backfeeding-thats why I left it removable.When its unplugged(which is always except in the case of an emergency situation)it is nothing more than an an entension cord to an outside recepticle,or you can unplug it from the recepticle installed near the furnace and its nothing but those parts you need-only not on a shelf -they're close enough to where your family could be instructed on how to connect them and not freeze to death.The area I was in last winter was bad enough that it would have taken me,an ambulance,or just about anything other than a chopper days,maybe a week to get to my home

Reply to
GEOD998

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