Just got called that Baldor motor #3 is overloading with the slightess
The old repaired one operates just fine on the test.
Officially this has been going on since July 11th. [from my point of
June] Obviously Baldor didn't check it, like the repair shop requested.
Baldor was contacted by the repair shop, and told we had to do
heat is needed now. Baldor agreed to allow repair shop to obtain
brand motor, and they will make it right with them.
Apparently Baldor has a bad batch of motors. It's hard for me to
because of the amount of time that has elapsed.
I do think Baldor is a fine company, and has quality products, but then
shows that they have weaknesses. Their lack of communications and
to call back to get them to act, is dissapointing. Of course I'm
the repair shop, but they have a stering reputation here in town, so
it's Baldor that's lacking, in this situation.
I'll update when I know something new.
Of course I'm dealing thru the repair shop, but they have a stering
reputation here in town, so
I'm thinging it's Baldor that's lacking, in this situation.
I'll update when I know something new.
Burner, the shop is screwing you around... Not Baldor.
You have another problem here... I'd bet you money on it. I've never
seen 1 bad Baldor motor come from the factory... in 20 plus years.. much
Check the system out more... something is wrong. Simple stuff.. is the
BTW, Baldor is offering to buy another manufacturers motor because
they're tired of screwing with your motor shop and want done with it.
They tried to do the right thing....
Osc... Reliance Motors are excellent... and pricey for General Duty. I
do install them in the most severe applications.
A pump, running right, can be powered by a Leeson or Marathon or even
the Chinese junk just as well as a Baldor. The only question then is how
long it will last.
I don't think so, talking to the repair shop since last post I found
out that Baldor is going to do is give them a good motor of their own.
The repair shop is working it out with Armstrong Pump to provide
another motor. Armstrong distributor in Columbus, Ohio is aware of the
situation, so if the repair shop is blowing smoke, they are in concert
I'm not paying for anything this is warranty work from Armstrong Pump
Co. provided by their authorized repair shop. So I can't really
dictate what they are going to provide. This is on Armstrong. The only
thing I'm paying for is the repair of the old Armstrong pump.
Jake, didn't answer some of your questions.
The rotation was checked several times, volts, amps. I've been
challenged by different people.
I'm just service not an engineer, however if something changed in the
system to change the load on this pump, it will show up when I
reinstall the old original pump, because I'm chicken shit to wait any
I "think" I know this much, when you shut off a discharge valve on a
centrifugal pump, and the motor amps are below full load, and then
barely crack it open and the amps go crazy, it's hard to believe that
it's the system. I've had a similiar problem before and it was a
solved by a larger horsepower motor for the system. It could have been
sized wrong, and operating on the end of it's curve. With this job, it
has a 12 or more year history of the same pump, with the balancing
valve open much further. The old pump's motor didn't fail, just the
bearings, and it needed a seal plate.
This pump is on a primary loop in a boiler room, with two boilers and
their pumps pumping thru the loop, and the secondary pumps are also
pumping thru this loop. I've had the other pumps off/on and the
results are the same. The primary loop probably isn;'t 50 feet around
the boiler room. So I think it's the pump/motor.
Crazy thing about this job, is they have two boiler, with their pumps,
and two secondary pumps, only run one at a time. However they only put
one primary pump on the system, if it's down your done. Go figure.
Like I said we'll see.
> I "think" I know this much, when you shut off a discharge valve on a
In my experience, that's correct. No discharge FLOW will idle down the pump.
When flow exceeds the prime mover's (motor) ability to handle it... the
motor overloads trying.
Can the impeller clearance to the volute be adjusted on these pumps?
Impeller design or differences will change flow... as you checked for...
but so will the clearance between the impeller and the volute.
I would assume there is a mixer valve in the system? Is it OK? Does your
primary loop maintain its setpoint (like 180 or whatever)? If it's
fluctuating much... that would indicate a valving problem to me.
Higher than spec. flow also means poor transfer... which translates into
really bad efficiency. Do you know where the flow is now?
Sorry for all the questions... it's just I've seen many, many times
where something like a pump is blamed for trouble when it is really
buried a little further along...
Granted... that's all in commercial/industrial systems... but they only
make hydronics more interesting... don' they (-;....
That is normal for any pump for amperage to go down if flow came
to complete shut off, not only the amperage goes down but in addition
RPM will increase, however these ONLY happens on none
positive displacement pumps. Note on positive displacement pumps
regadles if is liquid or gas it is just the opposite,
the amperage will continue to go up until something gives up fusses,
circuit barker, overload, motor itself Etc.
A centrifugal pump is not positive displacement...
It's also common practice... as a matter of fact code in most locales...
to make certain there are pressure relief valves on real positive
displacement pumps.. whether they be lobe, progressive cavity, rotary
gearpump, piston, screw, diaphragm, etc.
Under NO circumstances (except maybe super critical systems) should a
pump stall or overload. A external or internal relief will keep system
pressure below the safeties.
This weekend, I installed the repaired original Armstrong pump, no
problems worked like always. So in my opinion it's official the Baldor
motor is defective.
Talking to the repair shop, they told me the owner was the one who is
trying to get this resolved. So he's purchasing a motor and will
settle up with Baldor. Baldor really aren't doing anything different
just standing behind their product. As far as I'm concerned they struck
out on performance on this one. But then again no one is perfect.
Can you post, briefly, the sequence here? I thought you had installed
a new pump with a new motor and it didn't work. Then you replaced the
new motor with a different motor and it didn't work. Then you had the
original pump repaired, installed it and it works fine. If this is
the case why can't the problem be with the new pump instead of the new
motor? Have you tried a new motor on the old pump?
We have met the enemy and they are us
and you are me and we are all together
Your sequence is correct.
The only correction to your comment, is that I DID NOT replace motor,
this new pump hasn't left the repair shop, since officially July 11th.
I believe the repair shop. They said the eternal part were the same,
with both pump. This makes since to me since their the same model
number. [I realize changes could have been made] The 3rd motor from
Baldor draws full load amps on the bench, so they didn't bother to hook
it up. Baldor said this third motor was from a different batch.
I can't 100% say it's the motor, but I'd be willing to bet, it is.
Baldor eventually said the first two motors were bad, and sent the
third. The repair shop said the third motor is bad, I believe. This
work is being performed for Armstrong and Baldor, not me. Of course
I'm taking it in the ass on this job.
You really need to add a couple of gauges (1 on the inlet, and 1 on the
and record the system-off pressure and the system-on differential pressure.
Then the quasi-system curve can cross against the pump curve to see what
may be happening. If you have any valve movements (3-way, etc. vs. on-off
control), you need to log those also in there respecting positions.
If you post the pump info and the readings, I'm willing to have a look
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