Alternative to freon?

[danmc68]

What do the new air conditioners use in place of freon? Does it make a difference in terms of the energy required to operate the air conditioner?

Thanks, Dan

[Noon-Air]

"FREON" is a registered trademark of Dupont, "refrigerant is the generic term.... there are a thousand different types and kinds of refrigerants. The old A/C and heat pump systems use R-22 refrigerant... it is being phased out.

The "new" refrigerant is R410a. Its known by several different trade names... AZ-20, Puron, Prozone, etc. The actual differences are that R410a runs 1.6 times higher presures, uses a different type of oil, and neither are compatable with R-22 or its oil. Much more care must be taken when installing new systems that require R410a. R410a is also a much more efficient refrigerant than R-22.

[Stormin Mormon]

Freon is a brand name, like Sunoco, or Dow Corning.

Your question doesn't make much sense, since "Freon" isn't one particular product.

[NewTen]

You mean refrigerant! I came across a site I had just read. It about refrigerant or Freon. It helps you much better rather me rewrite what it said.

[Noon-Air]

Too bad you don't actually work with A/C and heat pumps... I can show you 2

14SEER heat pumps... one in R-22 and the other in R410a... for all practical purposes they are identical. However... the R22 system needs 22lbs of refrigerant, the 410a system only 11lbs, the R22 system also needs doubled up condenser coils, and a larger compressor.... the 410a system does not. THe R22 system has to have an ECM blower motor, the 410a system has an X13 motor.

I am not talking about what the OEM says, I am talking about actual experience.

[Steve]

If the scroll is sounding like a bucket of bolts, its running backwards. Every single one of the new scrolls I have installed or run across is almost dead quiet.... some of the older scrolls are a little noisier, but still a fraction of the noise of a recip. I changed out a 7 1/2 ton Climatuff recip with a scroll, and it was dead quiet.

If your having problems with noisy scrolls, make sure your super heat and subcooling are correct and that your not slugging the compressor.

[Don Ocean]

That is only because of different expansion and condensation ratios, nothing more. How do you compensate for the molecular leak down of R410A? Also, I have spent a great deal of time repairing the leaks in R410A systems installed by others. Fer Chists sake, Doesn't anyone teach these guys how to make a Military brazed Joint? I have had a couple of shitty Evaporators that held nitrogen charge when delivered, but leaked when operational with R410A. We have had a cool summer after a very mild winter. The weather is averaging about 76ºf, and I am tuning up furnaces all ready.

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[Steve]

Yes...

[Stormin Mormon]

My D-Tek Tekmate is supposed to do HFC, but I havn't had much success with it on 134a.

[Steve]

mine works great for R410a

[Don Ocean]

Change the tip filter.

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[Noon-Air]

The fins only bend if you try to wash them out with a fire hose or a high powered preasure washer.

[Don Ocean]

Not a problem. You sell the owner a $90 fin comb and leave. ;-p

[Steve]

I get a lot more than that for cleaning the coils and not bending the fins over, and excess refrigerant recovery.... why would I want to sell them a fin comb?? other that the hope they will destroy the coil and they pay to replace the entire system....

[Don Ocean]

If they bent the Hell out of the Fins, it is only charitable to sell them the means to repair the damage. The Service call etc is another matter.