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Reply to
David
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Paying attention in English class would've done wonders for your writing ability.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Got a chuckle out of that one. English teachers today aren't that far ahead of their students! Don't forget, except for the most senior ones, they grew up and were "trained" in a "scholarly" climate where grammar and syntax, not to mention spelling and punctuation, (yes, I know they're part of g & s) are becoming forgotten arts.

Capitalizing nouns a la David is characteristic of a foreign writer. German does it routinely; probably other languages as well? Which?

P.

Reply to
Persephone

I don't know - but I am so disgusted with the "English" teachers that my son has encountered that I seriously think about home school or at least adding some writing to his work load (which is close to nonexistent).

C
Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

When I was a kid, my dad used to tell me I'd end up pumping gas forever if I didn't do well in school. I told my son he could end up like President Nookular. That was enough. Sit down with your son in front of the computer and browse through the Bush quotes here. Ask him if he wants to have people laughing at him for his entire life.

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(The site's been twitchy for a few days. Keep trying.)

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

The heck with Bush, I just have to point to his former English teacher that had a tongue stud and nothing she said made sense. Let alone her comment "that I does not do"

C
Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

What???? Did you talk to the principal about that mutant teacher?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

He had no problem "with the personal expressions of our fine staff".

C
Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for all his language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify his saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an outspoken Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to teach the subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C
Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems with algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to stay after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was not long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged kids to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to talk to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying that other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that since we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to make a petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed off that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With input from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son and a friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was a girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still works as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to fill vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown song, she don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released from jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home and said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him about his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words that deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a service, and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time to time.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

I wish it were that easy.... C

Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and embarrassment. In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to be dissatisfied.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C
Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

Not true. If you're willing to cause pain and embarrassment, anyone can be eliminated. Go to a school board meeting and get loud and rude, to the point where they're ready to call the cops. People go through life asleep. You need to wake them up.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Unfortunately, all the real business gets done at the "closed" sessions. At some one's home or such.

I know that several people that have raised objections to teachers, subject matter or books find their kids having mysterious "issues" at school. There's a reason I'm for vouchers...

C
Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

You give up to easily. There's *always* a way to embarrass people. Walk into the school, sit down in the classroom and tell the teacher "I'm writing a newspaper article about incompetence, and I can't imagine a better place to gather information than right here". You own the school, right? The teacher is your employee. Who ever heard of a situation where employers are not allowed to watch an employee do their work? If you get arrested, send in another trooper.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Outside of parent-teacher meetings, class parties and volunteers, parents are not allowed in the classroom at anytime. Self esteem and all that rot. And getting arrested will lose my DH and myself our security clearances. And jobs. And frankly, too many people are impressed by the degrees some of these "experts" have, whereas I know just how easy it is to get those extra initials. And the programs for "at risk" and "special needs" students are so well thought of that the average kids are getting the short end of the education stick.

Nope - hope for the best in school and shop for a new school situation. The only way to bring the public schools back to excellence is school choice and the end of the teacher's unions.

Reply to
Cheryl Isaak

A friend of mine was fortunate enough to be in a situation where she could prevent morons from graduating college. That helps, too. Keep them from ever getting near a job where they can pollute childrens' minds.

She was teaching a research methods course for seniors at one of the NY state university schools. The students came from an assortment of major programs. Out of 50 students, about 5 could not write. Since writing is an important part of research, she found this to be a bit odd. But, since she was from Puerto Rico, and only in the states for about 3 years, she wondered if perhaps her own language skills were preventing her from seeing some nuances she wasn't aware of. So, she detached the names from the writing and had another faculty member review them. The consensus was that they were gibberish. The writers were all born and raised here. The writing was a requirement to pass the course, and the course was a requirement for most of the students. She flunked them. There were howls of protest, of course, but the school backed her up. She showed me a couple of samples. It wasn't a matter of their having been a bit less than elegant. It was actually impossible to figure out what these people were trying to say.

Besides just being annoyed by their lack of language skills, she had another reason for her decision. As I mentioned, she'd arrived just 3 years earlier from Puerto Rico, having taken English in high school. Her fluency was about as lame as that of students here who make the usual halfhearted effort in foreign language courses here, because the high school requires it. A year later, her English was absolutely perfect, simply through immersion - living with the language. So, how is it that people born & raised here, immersed in English since birth, are unable to write or speak the language?

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom
[...] .

Whoever wrote this:

Congratulations on throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I get the impression that you know little or nothing about the history of the labor movement. It makes VERY worthwhile reading!

Unfortunately, we have become so fat and lazy that we forget -- or never knew -- what unorganized workers went through in pre-union days, not to mention the martyrs who were murdered for trying to organize. Not to mention child labor - the "dark satanic mills". Not to mention the infamous Triangle shirtwaist fire in New York City, where hundreds of young women died because exits locked. Why should it take these kinds of human sacrifices to arouse the public enough to demand that selfish, greedy businesses install safety protections. And that's in the good ole USA! Look at what can happen abroad! See below*.

Back to U.S. labor movement: Does Sacco-Vanzetti ring a bell? Mother Jones? Joe Hill? Molly Maguires? The Palmer raids?

To mention only a very FEW instances where people DIED for the right to organize. Where workers' organizing groups were attacked, beaten, arrested, hanged, as "anarchists", "radicals", and so forth.

Truly, as a nation, we have an attention span of 5 minutes! (Except for Paris Hilton)

Remember, even the Teamsters started out legit, and only later became corrupt, culminating in the infamous Nixon-Teamsters-Mafia axis of evil.

Googling "books on the history of the United States labor movement" yields hundreds of sources.

Here's the introduction to just ONE such site, chosen at random:

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"The United States has the bloodiest history of labor of any industrialized nation on Earth. It is a story rich in human drama and tragedy. It is also one of progress and hope. This is a resource that teachers of United States history can use to incorporate our rich social and labor history into their courses. Using the ideas employed here teachers will increase student understanding of the American economic system and the important issues we all face as workers today. The concepts and lessons will build on each other so that at the end of the school year the student should have a working knowledge of the importance of labor in society. A guiding theme of this work is how laborers have earned a voice in the workplace and increased their share of the economic pie. Teachers should highlight the stark contrast between today's working environment and the relationship between workers and owners of the past."

If you truly want to "go back to the coathanger", as it were, and have teachers underpaid and exploited as in the not-so-distant past -- if you think that kind of educator is good for our children -- then by all means advocate abolishing teachers' unions.

OTOH, perhaps you could consider investigating and advocating for change in areas that you might LEGITIMATELY object to?

*-------------------------------------------------------- (from a Malaysian web site)

"One such case was the instance when the "moral police" of an Arab country chose to lock the gates of a girls dormitory that had caught fire, on the grounds that some of the girls should not be allowed to escape as they were not 'decently dressed' and had not covered their heads with scarves.

The end result was the deaths of these young girls - but the 'moral police' would presumably have defended their actions by saying that the girls who died had 'gone to heaven' as their modesty was not compromised!"

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Persephone

Reply to
Persephone

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