"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in: rec.gardens
No I don't know what a point source is... *exactly*. My knowledge of chemical pollution is very limited. I have a vague idea of what a "point source" might be. If you direct me to a link I'll have a read.
Michael
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in: rec.gardens
How the f*ck did my partner come into this discussion? What $50,000 light fixture? You been tipping a few brews?
I'm the one with the violet issue. My partner couldn't give a shit one way or another about them.
Michael
I'm mistaken, then. It's you with the violet problem, which makes the chemical dependency much easier to deal with. No interpersonal issues to complicate things.
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in: rec.gardens
No, they annoy me.
Michael
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in: rec.gardens
LOL... I wonder if there is a Roundup Rehab anywhere.
Michael
I get annoyed when people entertain themselves by threatening the health of children they've never met, and pretending they don't know they're creating a threat. That's an accurate interpretation of what you do when you use lawn chemicals.
"JoeSpareBedroom" was forced to post this in: rec.gardens
Please spare me the sanctimonious chest thumping. Who said anyone was "entertaining themselves" by threatening the health of children"? Actually that is *your* interpretation of what people do when they use lawn chemicals. You make it sound as if people are out there purposely dumping gallons of chemicals onto their lawns with the sole intent of doing harm to future generations. Do you seriously believe there is a global conspiracy to threaten the health of children by using Roundup and/or lawn chemicals for sport? I don't. Nor does the USDA. However, you have piqued my curiosity enough to do some research. Your Wikipedia link, while somewhat informative, did little to enforce your argument. I'm going to check the book below out of the library. Meantime I'll see if Missouri Botanical Garden has an alternative to the Roundup to kill my violets.
Title: POINT AND NONPOINT SOURCE POLLUTION
Authors Loague, Keith - STANFORD UNIV. CA Corwin, Dennis
Submitted to: Encyclopedia of Hydrological Sciences Publication Type: Popular Publication Publication Acceptance Date: August 1, 2004 Publication Date: December 1, 2005 Citation: Loague, K., Corwin, D.L. 2005. Point and nonpoint source pollution. In: M.G. Anderson (ed.) Encyclopedia of Hydrological Sciences. John Wiley & Sons, Ltd. Chichester, UK. Chapter 94: 1427-1439.
Michael
1) The only way to know that a substance is safe is to test it by purposely exposing people to it. You will not see that happen in your lifetime, especially not with children. Therefore, it doesn't matter what the USDA or any other agency thinks. None of these things can be correctly tested. 2) The point source definition is all you need, although I'm sure the book will be interesting. I mentioned "point source" because the opposite is a situation where contamination CANNOT be traced to a single source. This is not the case with lawn chemicals. We know exactly where they come from. Homeowners and golf courses are the primary users. It's not a conspiracy, but it *is* a large scale, mindless desire for perfection. 3) Here are some things you know: Some chemicals are known to cause neurological problems. In many places, the stuff you use ends up in groundwater, and you have no clue as to where it goes next. Perhaps it ends up in someone else's drinking water. Since you know these things, and you still contribute to the problem, you must want the problem to continue, or you would stop using lawn chemicals.
You keep repeating this so often, I'll bet you thought it up yourself.
The Clinton administration did place a moratorium on voluntary human pesticide testing in 1998. But you're saying they are not allowed to use the data collected from accidental exposures?
Bob
Accidental exposures do not equal controlled tests, and certainly not in large enough numbers to impress any real scientist.
As far as moratoriums, I don't think that's the issue as much as this: You've probably seen newspaper ads asking for volunteers to test new medicines. What if you saw an ad involving a new pesticide? Now, how would you describe any person who volunteered to be dosed with pesticides? Give me some adjectives, or elaborate descriptions?
Nah... you're alright. For a violet-hater. ;-)
Sounds like you might be from my part of the country, at least you referenced Mo Botanical Gardens. Relax, I greatly value my privacy and regionality is about as far as it goes.
Anyhows, a little poke in the eye and banging on pots keeps us all entertained and learning. Thats how things have always worked in my family, everyone has the freedom to scream and yell and vent. After the dust settles, we find we have come to some sort of agreement that is equitable for all involved.
Be Careful, there are zealots running around with sticks and pots
Charlie
Is that wiggle room?
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
Joe, how long you been gardening? How long have you lived with open ground around you? Some people since before they can remember and some people have just moved out of the projects.
Maybe you enjoyed doing other things before you learned the pleasures of gardening. What ever it was, you didn't learn gardening from divine revelation, you had to invest some time. We are all responsible for tons of information that mostly eats up our time remembering where to find it much less remembering what it is. If nothing else we all read at different rates. So give Michael a break and help fast-track him to a sane environment instead of pissing him off at you and the row you represent.
Unless you have a representative from Cargill or Monsanto in front of you, don't stomp him. If you do, save some for me.
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
I've been gardening for about 35 years. I digested news about chemicals for several years before that. To me, there was never any connection between gardening and chemicals. Although I think "Crockett's Victory Garden" is one of the most useful books ever written for new gardeners, I was surprised to see how often he suggested dousing things with chemicals.
If it affects their bottom line? Oh yeah.
You mean that government agency that is the recipient of so much purchase political pressure and recipient of grants from ADM, Cargill, and Monsanto? That USDA? Remember the tobacco companies who made billions by avoiding the nasty little fact that their product kills people or worse, leaves them in agony.
There you go. That's the way. Takes time to do it smart.
While your at it Michael look at the Wikipedia article on Roundup.
Then you may want to tale a look at
Look forward to you kickin' some newbie butt.
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
"JoeSpareBedroom" expounded:
Jim Crockett's Victory Garden was my first vegetable gardening book, but even back then I was reading Organic Gardening and Farming and knew Jim's use of chemicals was a Bad Thing. Jim died of cancer at age 64 (which is looking younger and younger every day to me!). Ya gotta wonder......
Yeah..I wonder about his death, too. I still use that book as my calendar.
No, because it would not be an accurate survey and certainly not a scientific double blind study. The industry would laugh at it.
Wow, I never knew he was that young! That's horrible.
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