roundup in the yard and garden

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from exposure to small amount of toxins.

Carl

[JoeSpareBedroom]

True. We may never know, especially since the results of some studies are dependent on cash, not data.

[Bill Rose]

intuitive. So what your saying is that China did us a favor by shipping us melamine treated gluten and the Bush Administration is doing us another favor by releasing the tainted chickens, hogs and, fish for consumption (Started last week. It's a good time to go organic, at least for awhile.). Boy do you have a hard one to sell. This sounds like a nice discussion to have over a bucket of margaritas but the bottom line is that if, there was an evolutionary advantage to ingesting toxins, we would have found it in the last four and a half billion years. Toxins are toxic. Why don't you start with something easy, like selling famine. It has been shown that if lab animals are occasionally starved, they live longer. By the way, can I freshen up you salmonella?

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I am not into homeopathy. Just pointing out an alternative view to 'toxicity'. We have highly evolved organs/systems to deal with many naturally occuring toxins. But much of your post is some kinda rant that's difficult to follow so.....

you can have the last word.

Carl

[JoeSpareBedroom]

That's nice, but for much of the crap we're intentionally exposed to for profit, nobody knows what the toxic levels really are.

[Bill Rose]

One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Y'all come back, hear? We wasn't shooting at you and your liver.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

[Persephone]

That may well be; I'm not familar with Bechtel's crimes; will research.

I *was* talking about Monsanto, however; I well remember the article in Mother Jones.

A brief reference to Monsanto and water can be found on this site:

takes you directly to "Millions against Monsanto". On the right side, go to "If you're talking about", and scroll down to "Water Privatization".

The crimes of Monsanto on the above link are absolutely stupefying! Wonder who their fellow-criminals in Congress might be...

Sometimes the urge is so, uh, urgent that I elucidate until I'm BLUE in the pool...er...in the face...

Persephone

[FarmI]

???? Bill McBride was the first Doctor to make the connection between thalidomide and birth defects in 1961 and Persephone's post on Kelsey says that thalidomide was taken off the market in 1961.

[John Bachman]

I would use some general herbicide (probably Scythe, not Roundup) if I needed to clear a piece of land which harbored a multitude of weeds, both grassy and broad-leafed. I may have done so many years ago when I started my mini-farm, not sure and would have to check my records.

If the land section were small enough I would use my trusty flamer a tool that is ignored by too many people IMHO.

There have been misuses and overuse in the past. I am not familiar with the operations of large, commercial farms, just small ones. My experience is that the small farmers are very aware of the dangers of overuse of any pesticide and pay close attention to their activities. The introduction of IPM techniques has dramatically changed small farm operations for the better.

John

[Bill Rose]

Thanks for the honest answer.

How are small farms doing? Are you doing OK or just hanging on? I thought small farmers were being run-over by large agri-corporations. Have you found a niche market or do the corps just take-over the most lucrative crops and, leave small farmers the marginal ones? Do you think there is a future for small farms?

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

[Bill Rose]

G'day Love, shouldn't you be out feeding the chooks instead of coming in like a bomb-thrower while I'm expounding? OK, OK, I'll take off the lamp shade and be serious.

Lord, this takes me back a bit. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on the little grey-cells any more:

.

Good on Bill McBride. I guess that everyone else was dead to the world. The long and the short of it is that it should have never gotten to market in the first place.

"It was sold from 1957 to 1961 in almost 50 countries under at least 40 (different) names . . ." Then once released in 1957, it took these blobheads 3-4 more years to figure out that from " 1956 to 1962, approximately 10,000 children were born with severe malformities, . . .) OK, so there is a bit of an over lap on the dates. If we just average it, we are talking about about 7,000 babies with "extreme deformities", and how many with just your average deformity?

"Before its release inadequate tests were performed to assess the drug's safety, with catastrophic results for the children of women who had taken thalidomide during their pregnancies."

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow. Your a good conch.

Scratch y'er crater,

- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

[Bill Rose]

In regard to extreme disregard to human suffering I'm not seeing much difference.

Better than a double expresso.

Then there was the time that the traveler called down to the front desk and said,"I gotta' leak in my sink." The front desk said,"Go ahead."

Persephone, just so's you knows, I'm not going in the pool with YOU;-)

- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

[John Bachman]

I am not really a small farmer. I am a guy who runs a mini-farm as a hobby. I like my hobbies to pay for themselves so I have some cash crops for that purpose.

I am now in year two of a three year plan to move to garlic as the cash crop. It is less labor intensive than some other crops (raspberries was my start) and there are few growers here (New Hampshire). So far it is looking pretty good.

I am able to visit small farms throughout the year, folks who are larger than me and depend upon their farms for their livelihood - most are organic. They are doing OK, not great but keeping their heads above water. They find ways to increase revenue and adapt, adapt, adapt - a great bunch of people.

You will not find their produce in the supermarket, farmer's markets and stands on their farms are the principal outlets. Sadly, most people do not experience produce produced locally.

I took some of my peaches to the gym where I work out and gave them away. The reaction was incredible. Most people have never experienced a fresh, ripe peach picked off the tree just a couple of hours ago. They could not believe it and had never visited a farmer's market. Some of them do now.

Being the sole proprieter and only worker on my parttime mini-farm I cannot possibly go organic. But I can use IPM and do. Many of the organic disciples think that I am a heathen because I use chemical products where I deem them necessary. That's life, but I admit to annoyance from time to time.

Good luck.

John

[Persephone]

[...]

[...]

Well, I sure hope you can undercut the Chinese

I could not BELIEVE my eyes, the last few times I bought garlic at the supermarket -- imported from CHINA??!!! Is that insane, or what?

Persephone

[John Bachman]

Yes, it is true. Most supermarket garlic is imported from China impacting the California garlic growers.

No, I will not undercut them. But I will produce a better product.

I think that this is another niche that small time farmers can fill but people have to get in the habit of buying from farmers markets.

John

John

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Good, because the garlic's getting pretty ugly lately.

[Michael "Dog3" Lonergan]

Pambo forced Ook to post this at: rec.gardens:

Roundup has been my friend for many, many years. One has to be very careful with it. Go exactly by the directions. The hardest for me is finding a day with absolutely no breeze. The drift from the spray can float around anywhere, including open windows. I use it on those PITA violets but I don't spray them with it. I put some Roundup in a styrofoam cup and brush a bit on the offending plant with one of those cheapie paint sponge brushes. The brushes are dirt cheap and I pitch the cup and brush afterwards. Good luck.

Michael

[FragileWarrior]

"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote in news:Xns993D4DD9514BCzjlzzjkvjzklzjkljxkl@69.28.186.121:

VIOLET SLAYER!!! UNCLEAN!! UNCLEAN!!!

Oh, Michael, how can you kill those marvelous little things? I'll have to introduce you to Tincture of Violet and eating the flowers in your salads which is so cool that people are in awe when they see them. And then you can press/dry the flowers and make lovely gifts like candles and stationary and soaps. Plus you can sugar the flowers for cake decoration. It's a wonderful plant! And you kill them. Shame. Shammmmmmmmmmmmmme. ;P

[Michael "Dog3" Lonergan]

Pambo forced FragileWarrior have to introduce you to Tincture of Violet and eating the flowers in

There is absolutely *nothing* you can say to change my mind about murdering the increasingly intrusive bastards. The wild mint either. What just boggles me is the same violent, that is vigorously intent on consuming my flower beds, lawn and even the cracks between the sidewalk, sells at nursery stores here for about $4.95 a plant. Why anyone would buy and plant them is beyond me ;)

And you *know* I'm not talented in the craft area so I say, off with their heads ;)

Michael

[JoeSpareBedroom]

"FragileWarrior" >> to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.

The same twits who spray for every damned "weed" would probably also have the biggest mouths if they discovered their drinking water was measurably and dangerously contaminated. They probably blame everyone but themselves. It's interesting that compared to 30-40 years ago, homes and golf courses are now the primary point sources for the majority of groundwater pollution. These are big words and inconvenient concepts, though, so it's hard for twits to even think about them.