Roundup questions

[SteveB]

My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know.

I have what seems to be Bermuda grass or a variant. Stuff that has a spreading root system. Hundreds of other garden variety weeds. I till and till, and rake out the weeds and roots, but I know I won't get them all.

I use Roundup on my 2+ acre spread. I have heard that it only kills what it comes in contact with, and doesn't work once it hits the soil. I'd like to know if it is safe to use in the garden on the weedy areas, or will it stay in there after I plant. Other suggestions for weed control that is plant friendly would be appreciated.

Steve

[Suzanne D.]

I've had luck keeping Timothy grass at bay by using layers and layers of paper and cardboard, with mulch (leaves and grass) on top. I have to re-paper it in the fall, as the grass does tend to find a way to survive, but it keeps the grass down during the growing season. If you do this for a few seasons the grass may eventually become stressed enough that it just dies altogether.

--S.

[Frank]

Anything other than a Monsanto chem. 4 x 8 sheets of plywood laid over the plot to smother the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect garden beds at the same time.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

What will you be planting, Steve?

[zxcvbob]

If it's really Bermudagrass, the only way to get rid of it is to move :) That said, Roundup works great in a vegetable garden.

Have you considered "no till" gardening? If your ground is full of weed seeds, when you till it they will wake up and you'll get a fresh crop of weeds.

Consider spot-treating the perennial grasses with Roundup, digging up the thistles and dandelions, and contolling the rest with mulch.

Best regards, Bob

[David E. Ross]

In contact with the soil, Roundup decomposes and is no longer effective after about 3 days.

I don't use Roundup broadly. I have used it to spot treat certain weeds, most recently Scotch thistle. Neighboring plants were not affected.

[kate]

lol! I bet it sneaks onto the moving van and follows.

[brooklyn1]

Do like it says on a bottle of laundry stain remover, try on a small inconspicuous area... common sense again.

Do you really have a two acre garden...... whaddaya growin', 'maters for the Campbell's kids?

[Billy]

Before using Roundup in your garden, you may want to look at

. Bermuda grass is a tough nut to crack. Roundup may be the only cure for Bermuda grass but I wouldn't want to eat from the garden it was used in. You might try solarization (clear plastic), but it won't help you for this year but you might be able to clear an area for next year. Throwing cardboard at it may eventually exterminate it, if you are vigilant. You may not wipeout the Bermuda grass but you should be able to get a harvest. And heads up on thistles and dandelion, they have deep taproots and improve poor soil. See: might want to identify the thistle before you pull it.

[SteveB]

Tomatos, peppers, beans, cucumbers, squash .......... whatever.

[Hedda Lettis]

If you're asking will it kill plants that you plant where you sprayed - no. It only kills what it lands on.

[George.com]

Steve

We have a weedspray on our domestic market made from pine oil which dehydrates weeds that is certified organic. Not sure if any use to you or if available in your part of town. Worth a squiz though he. This stuff is not systemic so will require reapplication but might knock down grasses to the point where they give up and die. Will not poison your soil I believe.

rob

[JoeSpareBedroom]

OK. Here's where Roundup discussions always get interesting, so pick and choose which of the responses you believe. A pair of dice is helpful, since that roughly matches the science behind human exposure to agricultural chemicals.

my opinion, the only way to determine whether ag chemicals are safe around humans is to test those chemicals in the same way as drugs. In other words, dose living volunteers with the stuff. For all intents and purposes, that never happens, although someone in this group once showed an exception.

If you're growing food at home, what's the point of taking the same risks as commercial farmers and exposing yourself to chemicals which have not and will never be tested for safety? Why do all that work to end up with essentially the same result?

Use mechanical methods to deal with weeds, like the suggestions about cardboard & mulch.

[brooklyn1]

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

Every three years I treat my 12' wide by 600' long crushed stone driveway plus two parking aprons with Roundup Pro Concentrate, that area is roughly

1/6 acre. I mix and spray 3 gallons of roundup pro concentrate, last time was two years ago and it cost more than $300 (would cost $400 now) and most of a day's labor with a 3 gallon manual pump sprayer and a lot of sweat mixing and lugging on a hot sunny day (didn't feel the investment in a power roadway sprayer was worth it for one time every 3 years). It would cost roughly $2,400 to treat 2 acres of unwanted lawn with Roundup... and I seriously doubt vegetables would grow there for at least a year... I know from personal experience that the effect of Roundup continues for a long time, that's why I can get by with an application every three years... it's been two years now and vegetation is starting to move in enough that now I mow my driveway.

I don't believe SteveB has a 2 acre garden, in fact I don't believe he has any size garden or has ever had any garden, and probably once he wakes up from his beer fogged trailer trash dream and realizes what gardening is about he will never have a garden... no one who has a 2 acre garden (that's a farm, folks) would ever ask such questions about killing grass and weeds with Roundup defolient... a person could feed a family of four with veggies from the market for two years for the price of enough Roundup to treat 2 acres. A person can easily feed a family of four (and two other families of four) veggies all year from a 1/16 acre garden and not pay a cent for any chemicals whatsoever... Steve couldn't afford to treat a 2 acre garden with H2O. When I read of people with their claims of 4 1/2 acre and 2 acre gardens (none have ever posted a photo) I seriously wonder if folks here have any concept of what's an acre of garden.

[zxcvbob]

He never said he had a 2 acre garden. He said he has 2+ acres and uses Roundup, and he's getting ready to put in a garden.

I had a 1/4 acre garden when I lived in Texas. (and I used RoundUp to spot treat the Bermudagrass that kept sneaking in.) It was a huge garden (IMHO) and was pretty much unmanageable until I discovered drip irrigation.

Bob

[brooklyn1]

"zxcvbob" wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

He certainly did refer to his 2 acre garden... why would someone mention 2 acres in reference to a garden when they are putting in say a 10' X 10' plot?!?!? Actually he did say he already has a garden, a "weedy" garden _"My garden is weedy. I'm tilling it and preparing it to plant. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I waited a long time, I know."_ He led folks to believe he has a 2 acre garden that is all weedy and he was asking if it was okay to get rid of the weeds in his garden with Roundup... it is quite clear that his intent was to lead folks to believe he has a weedy 2 acre garden. Had he truly wanted suggestion about how to weed his garden (which many offered) an honest person would have said right from the gitgo what size area (he said 2 acres), otherwise no one could offer help except some generalizations and mostly wild speculation. Just like the last person who boasted that she had a 4 1/2 acre garden but when I asked her to post pictures of her garden she didn't deny it but instead posted pictures of all sorts of things but none of any garden (probably a neighbor's property). People on usenet are smarmy, they make all sorts of wildly exaggerated claims and tell down right lies... very few are who they say they are. Many of the pictures folks post are not of their garden and/or not of anything they themselves did. It's easy to post a picture of someone elses garden, or some landscaper was paid to do and then claim they did it, and cameras are very portable so anyone can take a shot of a garden across town, and it's very easy to lift an image off the net... when someone posts a pictures of fully cropped flowers I wonder where they stole those images.

[Suzanne D.]

I always wonder the same thing. I hear so often of people growing their own vegetables because they don't want the chemical-laden crap that you get tat the store, yet they plant them in plots that have been chemically treated, and sometimes even use pesticides around them. Why not just save the expense and trouble and get them at the store?

--S.

[Suzanne D.]

the weeds would be effective -- and lay out perfect garden beds at the same time. _________________________

That's a GREAT idea for a new garden plot! I'd follow it up with cardboard & mulch, though, to keep the most hardy weeds down during the growing season AND to add some organic stuff to the soil when it decomposes.

--S.

[Suzanne D.]

Drip irrigation is the best invention, EVER. Because of it, I get to plant my entire front yard in corn, tomatoes, and cucumbers, and only have to work about ten minutes a day on it.

--S.

[brooklyn1]

Unless one already has the plywood exterior ply doesn't come cheap... and a

4' X 8" plot is not much gardening space... I'd not bother with less than six sheets. And you still need to till, pick rocks, rake, amend, and till and rake again, and again. Killing the weeds by smothering or with chemicals is a total waste of time, labor, and money... there is NO labor free gardening. A good deep rototilling will dispatch any weeds/grass so that those will never grow again... and NEW weeds are inevitable forever. I've been preparing my garden for planting for two days now, I hope to finish tomorrow and I plan to plant this weekend. Gardening is always work, a lot of work.