ID help

[symplastless]

Please help me identify two plants.

[Don Staples]

As a "Biologist" you should have no problem identifying the plants from your own sources.

[symplastless]

I guess that is your little way of saying you do not know. I never said I had all the answers, you just act like you do.

[Don Staples]

They are horticultural varieties, you call your self an arborist and a biologist. You advise the world with your funky so called dictionary, yet you have no idea of plants in your yard?

[symplastless]

And you? You call yourself a consulting forester but refuse to define what one is and how you define a forest? I am referring to the link that is dead on this page.

[John McGaw]

The second plant is definitely a Mahonia. My initial guess would be Mahonia bealeai, commonly known as Leatherleaf Mahonia but there are dozens of other varieties. Not an unattractive plant but it can spread pretty aggressively and form large impassable spiny thickets when birds seed them everywhere.

[Jangchub]

forester know? Your photo is not very good. It does not show node spacing, leaf axils, or many of the other ways a herbaceous plant can be identified. I don't see anyone else trying to help identify it.

[Don Staples]

Buttercup. I will define forester, consulting or other wise, when you admit your a spamming fraud, trying to make a living off Shigo.

[symplastless]

Do you mean that the only thing a forester is supposed to understand is just a tree? I understand the USFS on salvaging projects defines the forest as a single group or stand of trees under one or more ownerships. So that backs up your question. I forgot their definition of a forest, thus - forester. As far as they define it, a forester would be someone who makes decisions on a single stand or group of trees under one or more ownerships. See then I could plant and have a forest on a boat , in a plane or in a basement. I choose to define a forest as a highly ordered arrangement of living organisms living in, on and around trees, be they symplastless, symplast maintaining or dead, in such a highly ordered fashion that it assures a high quality survival for all parties. Wood of a tree is only properly termed dead when it has been burnt to ashes. I use the word dead very carefully. It's too easy to call something dead thus starting half truths and myths.

I have identified the one plant. White Wood Aster or maybe Eurybia divaricata Thanks for you comment.

[symplastless]

Shigo gave me the tools and techniques to do exactly what I am doing. I am sorry you never got to dissect trees with him. You would have a whole different view of trees and their associates if you did. The topic was ID which you claim someone who is a biologist should know. First I have studied tree biology specifically. I would think someone called a consulting forester should know. Anyway, I now know. and I am not ashamed. I did not know, but will repeat this process until every plant is identified. And you Mr. Consulting Forester (whatever you mean) - AKA Salvager, what is your plan or goal in life or with your so called consulting forester career?

[symplastless]

John

YOU ROCK!!!!!

Thank You

[Jangchub]

Dude, where's my car~

[Don Staples]

Continue to make a good living, buttercup, which, apparently from your "resumee" something where you have not been very successful. You studied nothing with Shigo, you were a saw hand, your "disections" were chopping dead trees and limbs. You should be ashamed, ashamed for being the unmitagate troll and fraud. I am beginning to think Shigo was a fraud as well, just from associating with you.

[symplastless]

Lets talk about fertilizer Don Staples.

Tree Fertilizer Conversation must start with the elements.

First if we are going to talk about fertilizer lets address each essential element. Any one of these, if lacking, will determine the health of the tree. The Law Of The Minimum.

Some terms defined in order that you may understand what I am asking or saying. Food is a substance that provides and energy source, mostly. Nutrient is a substance that provides an energy source, "elements", and other substances essential for life, in types and amounts that can provide a healthy life. Fertilizer is a substance that provides "elements", as salts mostly, or in bonded forms, that require microorganisms to alter to forms that can be absorbed by plants. Major elements in the crust on earth H, Mg, Ti, Fe, Al, Ca, O, Si / 99%. Elements, All The Same Atoms. Compounds, Two Or More Different Atoms Bonded. Mixture, Many different atoms not bounded. In short, elements are single groups of atoms of the same kind.

Two lucid soil chemistry documents.

and

Essential Elements For Trees: Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, Copper, Boron, Molybdenum, Chlorine, Zinc, Nickel [Sodium, Cobalt, Selenium?]

Macroelements: Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium ????

Microelements: I think? Please correct me! I call them microelements because they are anything but miner. When one is lacking the system can fail. Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, Copper, Boron, Molybdenum, Chlorine, Zinc, Nickel?

Are carbon, hydrogen and oxygen macro or micro elements?

1.. 14 come from the soil. Soil is a substance made up of sands, silts, clays, decaying organic matter, air, water and an enormous number of living organisms. Is it alive or dead? Yes, is the answer. We have no word for a substance that is both living and dead - wood, soil. 2.. Many elements available only as ions in low pH soil. 3.. What else do we know or have data to back up?

Please add what you know about each element and I will add what I have learned and documented about each element. I did do some pedology work in old growth "forest".

Carbon

Hydrogen

Oxygen

Nitrogen - A macroelement. Too much N sets a predisposition to sucking insects. Just ask the Christmas Tree farmer about the sucking insects. If "fast release nitrogen" is added it can create an increase in growth of symplast. Thus, increasing the demands on the soil for the other essential elements required to support the requirements of the larger symplast. Water and photosynthate would also be required in a larger amount. A tree that is self thinning, e.g., anthracnose, or a mature tree would not require this extra symplast to increase health of system. Urea story in links above. The bad side of the urea story, about urea changing pH in rhizosphere, is that after two to four weeks, the pH will decrease if certain bacteria are present and active. This seesaw effect with pH changes is more common than recognized in the rhizosphere. The problem is that when the pH conditions favor pathogens, it does not take long for them to infect. The two documents linked above have two informative articles on the topic. If you have fireblight a little bit and you hit the tree with the element nitrogen you will have a lot of fireblight. These are trade secretes. I have more but none to share now.

Phosphorus

Potassium

Calcium

Sulfur

Magnesium

Manganese

Iron

Copper

Boron - Microelement.

Molybdenum -

Chlorine

Zinc

Nickel - Discovered by Penn State with special equipment and added as the

17th essential element for trees. Is it an essential element for humans?

And what do you know about these elements? Are they essential?

Sodium?

Cobalt?

Selenium?

Thank you for your participation in this discussion Don Staples

[Don Staples]

:You are good at talking shit.

No discussion, one more idiotic rant from the web troll. You, a biologist that does not have the facilities to id plants, yeah, so now you are an expert on "tree fertilizer", what ever that is.

[symplastless]

That's all you know about fertilizers and trees? very sad. And you are a what? Well you claim to be consulting forester, whatever that means salvage hog.

[symplastless]

You are a what?