Feeding of Roses ?

I am a very new rose grower (I hope). I have read that Miracle Gro plant food (the kind you mix in water), and fish emulsion are good basics.

Can I mix the two in one gallon of water , for one application ?

Are there better feeding products ? Is the water soluable Miracle Gro better than a pelletized fertilizer (which I know would last longer, but not as fast acting, right ?)

Thanks for any **basic** fertilizing tips !!

James

Reply to
James
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I suppose you could mix them together, but I can't see why you'd want to

- MG and fish emulsion simultaneously is a awful lot of nitrogen at once. Actually, if you want to use the liquid MG, use it every other time you feed, in alternation with the fish emulsion. The fish emulsion has many other soil benefits that the MG doesn't.

Tony

Reply to
Tony

Thanks Tony !!

Do you think the MG is equally good , compared to a pellitized fertilizer ?

As you suggest, I will apply MG and fish emulsion as alternate feedings.

James

Reply to
James

In my opinion (and you will get others, believe me), the question should be "Which pelletized fertilizer, and for what plant?" You say you are a rose grower (I've never grown roses). I prefer to garden as organically as possible, but I am not 100% organic. I'm guessing there is a good pelletized completely natural rose fertilizer, or perhaps several of them, out there, if you want to go that route. Talk to a nurseryman (not the 17-year-old kid working in Home Depot's garden center). Decide for yourself what you want to use.

IME, Miracle Grow is most useful diluted to 1/2 strength as a transplant solution (it's great for that), and for things that benefit from an occasional foliar feeding. A solid fertilizer properly mixed into the soil may feed more uniformly over a longer period of time.

And before you follow ANY of the above advice, go to Google, type in "growing roses", and you'll turn enough articles to keep you busy for several evenings. As you go from source to source, you'll begin to see patterns emerge: Basic points all the authors seem to agree on (note those well!) and other, seemingly more contradictory advice (get back to that later).

Tony

Reply to
Tony

Roses prefer regular organic feedings and lots of it. Alternate feedings between fish emulsion and rotted cow manure every 3 weeks during the growing season. For each large established plant, I use 2 T. fish emulsion or 2 cups rotted cow manure. Back off the fertilizers 2 months before the first frost. Use fast-acting inorganic fertilizers sparingly, strategically or not at all.

I dont like to mix fertilizers--you might end up with undesirable results. Good luck with your roses, they can be a challenge.

Reply to
Phisherman

Thanks to Tony and Phisherman for very good points. I will take these points , and see how things go !!

James

Reply to
James

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Reply to
brooklyn1

Very nice site, Brooklyn1 !!

Thanks !!

James

Reply to
James

Hellloo.

"Are there better feeding products?" A damn fine question that. so by the numbers, let's take it from the beginning.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis

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"Negative impacts on the soil food web Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off entire_ portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and_ nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at the very foundation of the_ soil food web nutrient system, you have to keep adding fertilizer once you start_ using it regularly. The microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants.

It makes sense that once the bacteria, fungi, nematodes, and protozoa are_ gone, other members of the food web disappear as well. Earthworms, for example, lacking food and irritated by the synthetic nitrates in soluble nitrogen_ fertilizers, move out. Since they are major shredders of organic material, their_ absence is a great loss. Without the activity and diversity of a healthy food web, you not only impact the nutrient system but all the other things a healthy soil_ food web brings. Soil structure deteriorates, watering can become problematic,"_ pathogens and pests establish themselves and, worst of all, gardening becomes_ a lot more work than it needs to be.

If the salt-based chemical fertilizers don't kill portions of the soil food web, rototilling will. This gardening rite of spring breaks up fungal hyphae, decimates worms, and rips and crushes arthropods. It destroys soil structure and_ eventually saps soil of necessary air. Again, this means more work for you in_ the end. Air pollution, pesticides, fungicides, and herbicides, too, kill off important members of the food web community or ³chase" them away. Any chain_ is only as strong as its weakest link: if there is a gap in the soil food web, the system will break down and stop functioning properly."

Reply to
Billy

Billy, your rambling, psychotic , cut and paste response included the following claim:

"Chemical fertilizers (henceforth referred to as chemferts) are made from petroleum, for which we have gone to war."

Since you have made this claim in public, can you provide proof ? I am a student of world history and world events, and I know of no instance in which the United States of American has gone to war for petroleum products. Of course, there is plenty of oil in Iraq, but we have not taken one gallon of it yet, and I see no administration plans to do so.

Do you have some sort of mental disorder, obssessing on gasoline products ?

Do you also hate the United States of America ? Part of the Hate America First crowd ??

Is there some medication that you may have skipped today ?

James

Reply to
James

I have been using 'Bayer 3 in One' for several years now, expensive but easy and effective. See at their website,

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Reply to
piedmont

thanks piedmont !!

Reply to
James

Roses like abundant nutrients. I follow this schedule --

First feeding of the season, just as leaf buds begin to open, for each plant: small handful of ammonium sulfate, for quick nitrogen large handful of gypsum (calcium sulfate), to break up clay soil

2 TBS iron sulfate, for the iron needed to create chlorophyl 1 TBS Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate), to promote new shoots You will notice that all of these contain sulfur. My soil is alkaline, but roses prefer acid soil.

One month later: Bayer's 2 in 1 Rose and Flower Care This combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide. Although I don't use this as frequently as the label recommends, I never see aphids, spider mites, or similar insects; thus, I never have to spray.

One month later: small handful of ammonium sulfate

Repeat monthly, alternating between the Bayer and the ammonium sulfate.

I cut all amounts in half for a shrublet rose growing in a large flower pot, and increase all amounts 50% for three climbing roses. The last feeding is not later than 15 October since I want growth to slow before I prune around New Year.

Notice that phosphorus -- either bone meal or superphosphate -- is missing. I stir about two handsful of superphosphate into the bottom of each planting hole and then cover it with a little soil that has no fertilizer at all before planting. This should last many years since phosphorus does not readily disolve and leach away. Instead, it must be placed where roots will find it (but not where very new roots are starting to grow). This year, I used 1/4-inch steel rebar to poke holes around some roses that were planted more than 20 years ago. I filled the holes with bone meal, which was less likely to clog the holes than the granular superphosphate and less likely to impact any roots that the rebar directly hit. Phosphorus promotes flowering and root growth.

By the way, do not feed roses in the first year when they are planted, other than phosphorus in the planting holes. You want the roots to grow (phosphorus) and become thoroughly established before you promote foliage (nitrogen).

Reply to
David E. Ross

Another must do, keep debri away from base of plant so that air can flow and keep it dry and trim so that the stem create a circle and do not overlap, so once again, air flow through the circular center is helped.

Reply to
piedmont

Well, you got me there. It's probably just a coincidence that most of the natural gas deposits are around the Caspian Sea, and the Caucus Mountains, and that Afghanistan straddles the intended pipeline to get it out.

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least I didn't mention the 5 military bases that we are setting up next to Venezuela, which has the greatest oil reserves in the world, oh, damn.

You are quite right, there is no reason to get into why coalition forces left the Baghdad museum unprotected, while it threw a cordon of troops around the oil ministry, or Iraq's history of pumping its own oil, that will now be produced by foreigners, but this is getting off the topic of what fertilizer will work best for you.

Loss of top soil, global warming, insecticides, Operation Iraqi Liberation, industrial chemicals in our drinking water, no, no, I don't think so.

Love the country, I just don't think that the populous and the leadership are on the same page. You think the plutocrates are America? Hmmm.

I take them after dinner;O)

But moving along, I'm surprised that you, a gardener, are unfamiliar with how chemferts are made.

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Haber (9 December 1868 ­ 29 January 1934) was a German chemist, who received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1918 for his development for synthesizing ammonia, important for fertilizers and explosives.

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Haber process, also called the Haber­Bosch process, is the nitrogen fixation reaction of nitrogen gas and hydrogen gas, over an enriched iron or ruthenium catalyst, to produce ammonia.

As mentioned, chemferts like ammonium nitrate (NH4+ and NO3-) are salts that kill some microbes, leaving the rest of them in jeopardy, you did read the report that I prepared for you, didn't you?

The over application of chemferts speeding up the disappearance of organic material from the soil, requiring ever larger applications of chemferts. This excessive application of chemferts poisons potable water, as in our mid-west, and creates huge dead zones in the ocean at the mouths of rivers, that used to teem with sea food for human consumption.

That bit on humus is also very important because it conserves water, and only about .35% of the water in the world is drinkable, but then you probably knew that.

And the report boiled down to: you could leave the world in worse or better shape than you found it. It is your choice, but all of us, and your descendants will have to live with it.

Remember, all the material is in:

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis

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's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture (Paperback) by Toby Hemenway
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yeah there's a couple of good riffs in: The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan
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using petroleum for fertilizer p. 41-47, and p. 146-9. Michael Pollan opines that it's a shame that we can't drink the oil, because calorie for calorie, it would be cheaper than using it for fertilizer.

No, there's no need to thank me.

Is there something else that I could help you with?

Reply to
Billy

No Billy, I don't need lecturing about political matters when all I asked about was rose feeding. To go from that subject to the Hate America First rant is mind-boggling, and leads me to believe that you should see a shrink.

James

Reply to
James

It was one line out of, how many? You be the dude who is obsessing. Good luck with that.

Reply to
Billy

Re: petroleum, what is your problem?

Reply to
Billy

Another vote for the death of the biosphere. Go neo-liberals.

Reply to
Billy

And you didn't listen. You pick 6 words out of 185 lines to tweak out on. I bet you don't listen to your kids either. Probably 'cause they know more than you. You know, so why bother with the facts? There i s even a book out, just for you: Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future by Chris Mooney, and Sheril Kirshenbaum

Yes, Rush, is that all you got? Why do you hate America so much as to turn your back on the truth? What are you, an agent provacateur? Trying to distract people from the truth? Cointel never happened, right?

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The Church Committee never confirmed it, right?
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of wonders, the Rockefeller Commission on the same subject has been neutered.
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> rant is mind-boggling, and leads me to believe that you should see a shrink. A real classic. He's just crazy folks, a little prefrontal lobotomy will tune him right up. How long you been a cheer leader, James? Don't you read? Even the corporate news has to admit that people don't trust the government. People don't trust the Republicans. People don't trust the Democrats. We know we are being screwed. Goldman Sachs sold derivatives that they knew the seller was betting on to go bust. The client, John Paulson, made over $3.7 billion from the collapse of the housing market.

Fraudulent, Abusive and Deceptive' Practices Among Debt-settlement firms

³Looting Main Street²­ Matt Taibbi on How the Nation¹s Biggest Banks Are Ripping Off American Cities with Predatory Deals
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all the while, 31¢ out of every tax dollar, goes down the military-industrial complex rat hole.

James is beyond denial. He is an enabler.

There is some serious bad stuff goin' down all around the world. Most of the western countries are lined up to get Iraq's oil, and are prepared to put their own countries throug "economic restructuring". (America, Britain, Greece, most of Europe, if I can believe my lyin' eyes) Selling off public assets, and charging more for public services.

Global Ruling Class: Billionaires and How They ?Made It¹ by Prof. James Petras Even as the world's billionaires grew in number from 793 in 2006 to 946 this year, major mass uprisings became commonplace in China and India.

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to lay it on ya, but it will be comin' soon to a block near you, if it hasn't already, like Flint, MI. The last thing anybody wants is to have to go to the streets, but that is the only way things get changed.

Is a pile of crud.

Meanwhile, all of my organic tomatoes are up, just lovin' the chicken manure, and the alfalfa (lucerne) mulch. My biggest pea (1/20) is about

2' tall. Twenty six of my organic peppers are in, 6 more to go. Next comes the squash (8) and cabbage (12), and in 2 weeks the jalapeños (15) and the melons (6). I have one repair on the drip line where some hot coals got tossed. Next up is a 72 cell tray with Golden Bantum Corn (forth year), lettuce, spinach (I know, I know), calendulas, more sunflowers, and bush beans (24). It is all lookin' fine, and trackin' really well for a good year ;O)

I particularly want to thank Fran and Emilie for putting up with me, while I'm screaming "FIRE".

Reply to
Billy

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