I know what you mean. I seldom had bug/insect problems in my gardens. This
is the first wf and sm I've ever seen here. Usually just a few tomato horn
worms, a squash bug or two and a couple Japanese beetles... they've never
been a problem. Only SBV are here every year.
I have no way to know who tried the products they recommend and who just
makes suggestions because someone told them it worked for their brother's
sister-in-law's tenant's daughter.... you know what I mean.
After looking at the one garden today I don't think it would matter anymore.
The season ends here in Mid October. There's no time left to get a pepper
crop. The damage to the plants is too severe. Too many weeks wasted trying
things people recommended that didn't work, or barely worked. The smelly
Organicide is slowing working, but it's too late now. It will take to long.
I would love to find an organic answer. Very interesting read. Thanks. :^)
I'll look for it locally. Shipping today often costs more than or the same
as the product itself. And at this point these plants are hardly worth
pouring more money on.
Sorry, must have misunderstood you.
Oh... OK. Gotcha. :^)
Yep, it's got one week for us to see serious improvement. If none, then
everything from that garden is being burned, cremated. The ashes will be
spread out by the road. We're not using anything from the gardens for
compost this year. We found a place to get loads of mulch to compost from
the city. It's all shredded tree limbs, bark and leaves. Next year I'll
start spraying the plants the day I set them out.
Do they make dark shadows on your screens at night? Do you have
to wear a bandana when you're working in the garden to avoid
ingesting bunches of whiteflies with each breath? Do they make
pretty abstract patterns on the wall of the house where the
morning sun first hits? Cause, that's what it was like when I
moved into this house in June of 2001.
Something was clearly out of whack with the food chain for such
an explosion of the white fly population. And...<spit!> thrips,
they were just not as obvious at first.
So, I started releasing lacewings. The yard was horribly
overgrown, so I also cut back or completely down shrubs and weedy
trees that looked like they were especially overwhelmed by the
whiteflies. I released some ladybugs, too, and the next spring
released more lacewings and ladybugs. I talked to my neighbors
with varying success about not using broad spectrum pesticides,
and made sure they all knew what ladybug and lacewing larva
looked like. It took 2 years (and 3 summers) but things finally
swung back into better balance. I still get a whitefly outbreak
every summer, but I put yellow sticky traps out around the garden
for a little extra protection, and let nature take its course
elsewhere. Of course, I get all tingly and feel like an Uber
Garden Geek when I find ladybug eggs or lacewing larva on a plant
that has whitefly. I've been down right orgasmic over the
proliferation of squirrel treefrogs this year, too.
Yeah, we were in our fifth year of drought when I moved out here.
I'm sure that contributed to the pest explosion.
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic
pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were
done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP?
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:47:15 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:
Soap you use for washing. You make a spray and wash away the aphids and
other little buggers. Organic is great. Try Dr. Bronner's peppermint
soap. Kills them dead. Or instead of poison, a cheaper alternative
would be "Joy" or "Dawn". Whatever liquid dish soap you use for hand
washing. If you get a sprayer, you can do it larger scale. Look for the
problems, and spray/wash them away.
p.s. Dish soap water also makes an excellent wasp killer. You can
spray a nest overhead, with no worries about overspray. They can't fly,
drop to the ground instantly, and die in seconds.
How do YOU wash them away in your gardens with detergents? Do you have a
special high power sprayer made for such sprays? How do you kill them when
they hit the ground? Step on them all? If you don't kill them once washed
off they'll crawl and fly right back onto the plants. How do you manage to
use enough pressure to dislodge them and not shread the leaves?
Organic is great. Try Dr. Bronner's peppermint
So you tried this Peppermint soap on both 2-spot-SpiderMites and Whitefly?
Don't you remember I was told the other organic products would kill them
dead and not one worked as claimed? Since all the other organic products
failed, why would you think this one would work?
Or instead of poison, a cheaper alternative
How did you wash them away? How many pounds of pressure did it take to
dislodge your spider mites and whitefly? How did you wash off the nymphs
without shredding the leaves due to pressure? Since you believe these
organic potions work, please explain why all the others failed and how many
more will be recommended as long as a person keeps trying them? Just
wondering. :) From the website... this sounds like typical snake-oil:
Dr. Bronner’s is Celebrating Our 60th Anniversary! 5 Generations and 150
Years of Soapmaking Excellence
Marking the 60th Anniversary of the company, *Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps* is
pleased to announce that all classic liquid & bar soaps.........
Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done
this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site
selling "magic soaps?"
Now you even have me believing you are in this for the trolling.
Lady, soap solution kills insects. Kills them fast. Soap kills earwigs
lickety split, even though actual over-the-counter poisons barely slow
them down.. You have to be sure to cover them with soap spray.
I have personally murdered hosts of earwigs and aphids with soap.
And I have accidentally killed a few bees with it. If someone says
he's killed wasps with soap spray, I'm inclined to believe him.
The only caution is that soap can also damage plant leaves. And the
solutionto *that* is to come back around and rinse the plants off after
the pests are killed.
Insecticidal soap products work by smothering soft bodied pests and
disrupting their cuticle layer. In order to be effective, it is necessary to
thoroughly coat the pest. After the soap dries on the plant surface, insects
and mites will not pick up a lethal dose.
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)
Why? Because I ask questions after taking people's advice here and the
products recommended no working? Why can't you accept the truth? Why should
people keep going out and buying one product after the other when none
worked before? Your ignorance is really surprising since the nymphs of
these insects cannot be "washed off" like bits of mud or leaf litter.
So non-toxic common soap kills them dead but no one knows this but a few
people on Usenet? If soap killed silverleaf-whitefly and 2-spot spider mite
dead, it would be well known all over the world by now. Thee two pests
alone do millions of dollars worth of damage every year, both in the USA and
SA. But no one but a few people here know soap kills them?
To use enough pressure to dislodge the nymphs of WF and SMs will itself
damage the leaves, shred them if not knock them off the plants completely.
So tell them..... how much soap is used per gallon? At sundown I used a new
sprayer and sprayed the plants with 1 TBS per gallon soap and 1 TBS per
gallon flour as per one of the people here. All the WF and SP should be
dead and gone in the morning according to you. You claim the soap will kill
them dead whereas the nothing else did. We'll see.
Soap is cheap. I soaked the plants completely, top and bottom of the all
leaves the spray wand reached - right down to the ground.
The link above couldn't be reached (see below). I can't wait to read why
farmers are losing millions of dollars a year to WF and SP by refusing to
use Soap to kill them. Neem Oil is also supposed to kill them. Maybe I'll
learn why they're not using that either but rather take great losses.
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:48:58 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:
The soap makes the water wetter. It soaks into their skin and they die.
I think maybe they breath through their skin and this makes them drown.
I don't know what happens, just that the soap kills them, and they are
dead. And you don't need special soap for aphids or white flies. Because
my friend is worried about chemicals, we used Dr. Bronners on her iris's,
and gave them a quick wipe between fingers. Also we misted her mint and
rosemary, with now fear of using them in the future. The white fly
infestation is now gone.
Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when working
at someones house, I will encounter a wasp nest. Someone showed me the
soapy water trick many years ago. Fill a pan or large bowl with soapy
water. Fling it on the wasp nest. Done.
Well I sprayed all three gardens with Soap and flour as suggested here. I
had nothng to lose since these products were in my home and are both cheap.
We'll see if soap killed them.... in fact I'm taking the flashlight out
there now and looking.
OK... the plants were sprayed around 7 PM with 1 TBS each of flour and
handsoap (Palmolive) per gallon of water in a brand new sprayer with a
larger tip. Both sides of the leaves were sprayed. Sprayed were collards,
jewel peppers, chard, tomatoes and a Ichabon eggplant. Only the Chard had
spider mites and only a few plants are infested so far. The WF and SMs are
still there and are alive. I could see them moving, walking over the residue
of soap and flour when disturbed. They will not fly at night. They had 6
hours now to suffocate and die. The flour was supposed to somehow kill them
also. The whole garden smells faintly of soap but I guess that's better than
the Organicide which smelled like fish and didn't kill/smother them either.
I'm just wondering what will be said next.... that it's the wrong brand of
flour, the wrong kind of soap, wrong brand of soap and flour, wrong aroma,
constancy of soap.....? I'm sure you can see my point. The second garden
is now being destroyed by these pests and so far nothing had worked. Not
one of you purely Organic people have explained why the Neem Oil, the
Phyrethrum and the Organicide didn't do them any harm either. What's left to
recommend now? How many more organic options are left?
I can't try it on wasps since we don't have any here at the moment. But
since the soap and flour didn't kill the WF and SMs, I would have to be out
of my mind to toss it on wasps. You really need to tell people to try it on
insects not dangerous to themselves before recommending they toss it on
wasps. When it fails to kill the wasps as it did the WF and SMs, and the
person is stung, they can go into shock and die.
Some wasps are pollinators, aren't they? You kind of have to stay away
from certain plants at certain times of the day. Black-eyed peas are a
good example. Ours are always full of wasps in the morning. Gosh I
hate getting stung by a wasp. It's an awful feeling unlike anything
else. I have often accidentally reached for a bumblebee when picking
blackberries but at least they start to rumble and buzz as you reach out
to touch them. None have yet stung me. They are amazingly soft to the
touch... lol. My husband ran over a wasp nest with the tractor and they
stung the hell out him. The kind that nests in the ground is rather
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
Who said soap and flour?
And how did you manage to spray a nozzle clogging soap and flour
Soap, has worked for us on the rare occasion we've needed it.
As for wasps and bees... Bees, you leave alone for obvious reasons
except when there's a hive in an inconvenient place because bee hives
keep growing. Wasps, you leave alone because they're predators and
__pollinators__ and most helpful with cabbage worms etc. except when
their hive or nesting site is in a very inconvenient place.
...and with wasps, if you're persistent, a jet of water will knock down
and destroy most nests and they'll give up and build elsewhere. Yellow
This isn't something I'd recommend, but I've removed wasp nests by just
scraping them off or out with my Japanese farmer's knife.
Finally, with wasps, leaving a good sized, dead, nest in place may keep
other wasps from building. I left one beautiful, complete, paper wasp
nest inside our garden shed and they've not tried to build anything in
there in the past couple of years.
What a person of your level of resourcefulness needs, Marie, is a
grenade launcher, flame thrower and an ample supply of napalm. Or
perhaps photon torpedoes launched from the belly of Ferrengi pirate
ship. Only cost you 50 quatloos.
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
Isabella BS snip.
As of 7 PM tonight the plants sprayed with Palmolive soap and flour are
still covered with the mites and whitefly - 24 hours after a thorough
drenching. Leaves have slightly oily feel and flour is visible in crevices
of leaves. Only difference noticed: The smell of the soap had dissipated.
Like I said, what a person of your level of resourcefulness needs,
Marie, is a grenade launcher, flame thrower and an ample supply of
napalm. Even then, it seems unlikely that would work on on such a
contaminated, blighted, befouled, soon-to-be designated by the EPA,
toxic waste dump like yours.
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
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