WJ Book

[John Flatley]

Ed,

I'm glad your subscription cost concern has been heard and will work out for you. Most, but certainly not all, of the folks in the woodworking industry are great to do business with. There are the usual assortment of bad apples, as in any field.

Consider a suggestion. Maybe the next time you suspect a problem, you are thinking of challenging a vendor or a practice and you want more information before taking the problem to the vendor; ask questions of the group. We are never short of answers. (opinions) Asking questions might keep productive posts from turning into a "bash a vendor" bitch forum. (might!)

I've addressed the post to you but I'm really talking to everyone to posted to this thread.

Jack Flatley Jacksonville, FL

-- "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important." --Bertrand Russell

[Dave Hall]

On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:53:04 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote: SNIP

I have had more than one magazine where I noticed that the renewal price offered to me was more than the New Subscriber price being offered in various mailings. In those cases, assuming I wanted the magazine renewal in the first place, I have subscribed my wife or son. The next year I am somehow magically a new subscriber so the next subscription goes into my name again. Is all that BS worth the $4 saved - well yeah, 'cause it is a game. I have also noted that the renewal price does appear to go down the closer to the renewal point you get or if you let the subscription lapse for a couple of days. What I don't understand is where those marketing directors were when they taught in Marketing 101 that it is much less expensive to keep a customer than to generate a new customer. This is important because usually when I see these kinds of silliness I just don't renew under any name at all.

Dave Hall

[Leon]

Well, they have apparently sold you that the book is free if you do not want to pay for it but NOTHING in life is free. SOME ONE pays for those books that are not returned and not paid for. The next book you buy will help pay for that book that you did not return and did not pay for.

[alexy]

Are you suggesting he send this one back to help hold down the cost of books for the rest of the woodworking community as well as his future books? Surely you jest. I'm as much of a believer in TANSTAAFL as the next guy, but that doesn't make it an absolute truth. You've got to stretch pretty far to consider this not free.

[Vic Baron]

Ah - but if I never buy another book from them it only costs those who DO!! Ergo, it's still f**king free to me!

[Leon]

Absolutely not. Gong with the theme of many not liking this approach to marketing, of the thousands of books that get tossed and not paid for, those that do buy from that company end up paying for that book. It would be far cheaper on those buying the books if the publisher sent out a letter with a request to review and buy the book.

[Leon]

Do you pay doctor bills? There are many people that do not pay their bills because they know the clinic will eventually absorb the charges and raise their rates, insurance premiums go up and so on. The patients paying the bills basically pay for those that don't. Same thing here except the publisher is encouraging this practice by the attached letter to not pay or return if you don't want to. Those that do buy the book from that publisher partially pay for the book that they encouraged you to keep.

[A.J. Hamler]

Well, actually, you're wrong on two counts.

First not paying doctors bills that are truly owed isn't even close to paying for a book for which you do not owe. People who go to the doctor are engaging a service for which they know a payment is expected. They use the services, then willingly stiff the doctor. These books are sent as a marketing enticement to encourage the recipient to engage the service. Those who choose not to engage the service (that is, receive more books) do not owe anything. That is why the follow-up letters from WWJ are not invoices, not bills, and not dunning letters. They fact that you interpret them to be so, does not make them so. They are what they are: marketing offers.

Second, sending these books is a marketing campaign that has already figured the cost of non-returns into the campaign itself. Books that are not returned do not raise the price of the books that are later sold. It's just the opposite -- books that are later sold eliminate the (negligible) cost of the non-returns. These types of campaigns make far more money than they lose. In other words, the fact that they do MAKE money means that they -- the marketers of such items -- LOSE nothing, and therefore do not have to pass on the costs of those loses to others.

A.J.

[alexy]

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you or I have the data to know this -- at least I don't. Most printing of which I am aware has a fairly large fixed cost and fairly small variable cost. It's a trivial exercise to create two different scenarios with fixed versus variable costs, response rates to a promotion like they did versus response to one like you propose, with one scenario showing the approach you use to create lower cost books for those who subscribe, and another scenario to show the approach they used to end up with lower cost books for subscribers.

But it is still free to those who got it and didn't pay.

[Vic Baron]

Gee, Leon - you're breaking my heart. That's tough for them, I'll still keep the book and if they send me another one, I'll keep that too.

As far as them that has paying for them that hasn't( or won't) - welcome to reality. It's a tough life but someone's gotta live it.

[Vic Baron]

Dog gone it A.J. - that's too damn lucid. More fun to pull chains.

V

[Lee Gordon]

[Vic Baron]

[Lobby Dosser]

[Leon]

I did not mean to take my comparison quite so literally. I was only demonstrating that waste costs all consumers directly or indirectly.

[Mike Marlow]

Ohhhhh John... I have to differ. Taking this approach will only result in the standard newsgroup feeding frenzy where folks jump in and take their turn at bash the vendor, or bash vendors at large. The best course of action is to always take the problem to the respective party before taking it to a public forum. Public forums are infinately less capable of providing accurate answers than the agency involved. What public forums excel at though is turning the smallest thing into some over grown, bloated issue. Those opinions you reference are often the most dangerous form of the written word.

[Mike Marlow]

It doesn't matter Leon - the books were bought and paid for before they were shipped out. It was a marketing gamble. Returning the book will do nothing to impact the cost of purchasing them and shipping them out.

[Dave Balderstone]

There is no waste involved in this example, except perhaps the annnoying invoices being sent.

This is a planned campaign whose cost has already been factored into budgets.

[Dave Balderstone]

What? You mean if a company makes more profit because of lower cost they don't lower their prices to offset it?

Shocking!

[Duane Bozarth]

Leon wrote: ...

You don't have to...as the info posted from the USPS stated, unsolicited material is not encumbent upon the recipient in any regard by law. You can trash it or simply write "Refused" or other indication on it and leave it for the mailman. If somebody else takes it instead, no problem.