WJ Book

The Woodworker's Journal book

It is disturbing for me to read the thread about the Woodworker's Journal book. I can assure you that there was no intention of causing aggravation and for that I apologize.

Most of the people getting the book offer in the mail are on (or have been on) our subscriber list. The book project was created for a couple of reasons. First off, we have 29 years of woodworking content, the majority of which is now out of print. We get hundreds of queries asking for these plans every year. Our only recourse at this time is to photocopy the plans, which is not a great solution for our customers or for us. After thinking about it for a while, we thought a good way to put those projects back in print would be to put them into a book series. The problem was that, while we know how to make and sell magazines ? we don't know much about selling books. (And as pedestrian as it sounds, we are a "for profit" organization. That is the second reason.) So we hired a marketing company to help us do that. Their suggestion was a continuity series sent through the mail. We tested the concept (10,000 books on the first mailing), and got a favorable response. The first book in a series like this always contains a "no strings attached" offer. If you like it, and would like to see more, you can buy it. If you don't like it, there are two choices. You can return it, at our expense (return label is included), or simply consider it a free gift and do with it as you will. That's all clearly stated in the letter that comes with the book. As a side point, we have recently added a good-sized "bubble" on the outside of the book packaging that says "No obligation opportunity. Please read enclosed letter" just to be very clear. Again, I apologize for the aggravation.

Rob Johnstone, Editor, Woodworker's Journal

Reply to
Rob Johnstone
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Once again, this topic comes up. I thought we laid this to rest a couple of weeks ago when it was my magazine under attack. At the time, I explained as carefully as I could that *NO OBLIGATION* is the name of the game with these kinds of offers. There is no reason under the sun for anyone who gets an offer of this type to get all upset and feel guilty. If you like the offer and want more, sign up. If you don't, send it back. If you don't like the offer, and don't want to send it back, then don't. Just keep it as a gift. Give it to someone else as a gift. Toss it out. Whatever.

A couple of weeks back when it was Woodcraft Magazine under attack, I not only attempted to explain all of this, but also stood up for Rob and WWJ's book promotions because the situations were so similar. (I seem to recall that I was criticized for that by a couple of posters.) But it's the same thing. There's nothing sleazy here, nothing underhanded. Rob's a great guy and edits a fine publication. He has better things to do than scam woodworkers. If you get a promotional offer from his publication, or mine, or anyone else's (I got a free cookbook last week from BH&G, with the exact same kind of offer), there's nothing to get upset or guilty about. It's just plain old simple marketing of an offer that we publishing folks hope you'll like. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, ignore it. You won't hurt our feelings, and we won't come yell at you.

As Rob says, "Read the enclosed letter." Everything you need to know is in there.

A.J.

Reply to
A.J. Hamler

Thanks for the book Rob - I will check it out and if I find it worth of the fee I will gladly send in a check. If I do not find it useful I will send it back or toss it (depending if I can still find the packaging and return shipping label). No whining here. Keep up the good work.

-Brian

Reply to
No

Reply to
Jonah

Thank you for replying to all the postings here. What you did not address though, was the repeated invoicing for the singe book. Frankly, it ticked me off when I got the second invoice. No, I did not send the book back, no, I did not join. I do not however, want to be badgered for my decision. I know there is no obligation. You took a risk and in this case lot out.

Another matter is the cost of a subscription. I recently (and probably foolishly) sent a check to re-up the magazine for $24.95. The check was sent and cashed in April. Now I get another request for me to re-subscribe, but the price has dropped to $19.95 for the same deal. What am I missing here, aside from 5 bucks? Obviously, waiting to the last minute is beneficial to me. Please address this concern also. I feel hoodwinked. The bill says this is for "preferred subscribers" Was I not preferred last month?

So far, WJ has not been a happy decision for me. I don't know if I want to remain a subscriber knowing that I'm not always getting a fair deal up front. If you want to check this, you have my name and my address in Putnam, CT 06260.

I await patiently for your reply. Ed Pawlowski

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Snip

Well I give you credit for coming and explaining HOWEVER, The cover of the container should have said, FREE GIFT ENCLOSED. Then the letter inside could have said pay if you like, return if you like, bla, bla, bla. Returning it would have required me to drive to the post office as my mail box will not accommodate the size of the package.

No obligation on the cover of the box does not assure me that I am not going to have to do something to keep from being obligated. I personally would have rather not had to even open the box to find out any details at all before I threw the contents away.

Reply to
Leon

Hi, AJ

Yes, it's me again! Please see my reply to Rob. Stand up guy that he is, I'm sure he will answer my question about variable subscription rates. Maybe it is just me, but I'm getting this distrust of the magazine publishing industry. Perhaps there is nothing sleazy and underhanded about asking for more money in April than in May for the same product. Pissed me off though. You really should stop and find out the facts before defending someone that has questionable billing policies. Do all you guys in the business do that? How about an insider tip as to the best time to renew subscriptions to get the best deal? Most all of us on this newsgroup subscribe to a couple of magazines and can use your insight to wind around the path of multi billings to the best value. Does Woodcraft Magazine to the same?

Your friend always, Ed

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Rob and A.J.,

While I applaud you for answering directly to the newsgroup, do realize that you did nothing wrong and the few who "thought" (and I mean that very loosely) to express themselves this way probably have nothing better to do.

I imagine the silent majority is not upset.

Thank you, Mike

Reply to
Mike W

...and what does any of THIS have to do with woodworking, Jonah? Did the plight of the publishing industry catch your interest? Did you have too much time on your hands? Were you sitting at your computer when you had all that time on your hands? You weren't throwing stones at all of us, were you, Jonah?

Jonah?

*tap, tap, tap*

"Is this thing on???"

Reply to
Robatoy

Your questions are better addressed to those who control those aspect of the publications, and that person is NOT the editor. Check under such titles as Publisher, Circulation Director and so on. The editor works with magazine content and layout. You really should stop and find out the facts before you criticize those who do not deal with the subject you're objecting to.

Reply to
Charlie Self

Good point BUT why did not the Circulation Director make his comments here about the shipping of this no obligation book instead of the Publisher? ;~)

Reply to
Leon
[snipperized]

Then it should be the Publisher, Circulation Director and so on to have this little fire-side chat with us here, eh?

The out-sourcing of marketing approaches (Publisher's Clearing House etc. (You MAY already be a wiener")) brings with it tried and true methods of shaking the bushes for subscribers at the lowest possible level...i.e. people who really don't want the magazines.

The 'negative billing' style of promotions are becoming more and more misleading as the digging for subscribers goes deeper. (Driven by the lure of higher circulation numbers in order to fetch bigger bucks for advertising.) Those schemes most certainly count on the basic instinct for humans to want to be decent. A book shows up. They hold in their hands something that isn't theirs. Do they send it back and feel bad, or keep it and feel bad? The only option left is to pay. It's a dirty ploy to bilk nice people. NOT cool.

Reply to
Robatoy

Nice reply, I don't have first-hand knowledge of this situation, but have some comments based on the notes here.

First of all, I suspect that you are legally in the clear, and I suspect that what is being characterized here as followup bills for the book are probably technically repeat invitations to pay for that book and join the club. If not, maybe you need to think about getting a new lawyer. If so, maybe you need to think about getting a new ad copy writer.

Seriously, no matter if your communications are okay from a legal perspective, they clearly are ticking off some folks here. That should raise a red flag for you that some things are being [mis]interpreted in ways you did not intend. Surely you don't want lots of your subscribers getting upset at you. While it is a small number complaining here, you probably also have only a small number of subscribers here, and I don't know what percentage it might be of that very small sample of your readership.

So, explaining here is good, but look inward, too.

Reply to
alexy

Thanks for helping me make my point. What little free time I have to read this group has become more of a chore than an enjoyment because of all the off-topic babble and sniping I have to wade through. Here are a couple of stand-up guys apologizing for not dumbing down their mailing enough to suit the masses, and all they get is more abuse! Sorry I didn't answer your post immediately...I was making sawdust.

Reply to
Jonah

In article , snipped-for-privacy@rockler.com (Rob Johnstone) wrote: [snip]

Oddly enough, however, it seems that a number of people who received this free gift have later *also* received multiple invoices billing them for it.

Reply to
Doug Miller

You or the circulation department/consultant are relying on the following

  1. I get this material that I never requested
  2. I maybe like it but would never have ordered/need it
  3. Jeesh I hate to keep something I sorta like with out paying for it, even if they say keep it
4 I don't have time to go to the PO to ship it back, so I'll keep it
  1. I still kinda feel guilty ....hmm now I'm pissed

Don't send something of measurable value without permission of the receiver

Only my opinion Joey

Reply to
joey

It was the editor that decided to come to a public forum under the Woodworker's Journal banner about the books. If he is willing to take responsibity for that aspect, he should be able to use his influence to get the answer to other practices by the same publication. If not, he had no business being here defending WJ in the first place.

I have tha facts. The fact were stated plainly. I have the invoice in front of me. If Rob is not the person to ask, if AJ is not to back him up, they should not make statements about their publications in a public form. I did just that. You decided to answer me. That is your choice, that is the chance I took. Since Woodcraft is not involved in the practice here, AJ should either sit back and be quiet or be willing to answer for his comments also. Just as you should. You have been involved in the publishing industry and seem to want to be involved in this discussion. What do you think of the practice of offering the same renewal at differing prices? Sleazy? Good business? I'm sure it is perfectly legal, but that does not mean it is received well in the eyes of the consumer.

I saw the mail last night and yes, it did tick me off to see that I could have saved five bucks by waiting. I was really not sure if it was worth bothering with, writing a letter, tell others about it, or just forget about it. Wow, to my surprise there is a full blown bona fide representative from Woodworker's Journal making public commentary. Why not ask the professional? The President of the United States takes all sorts of questions. Why would these guys want to shy away when they have the stage, front and center, to explain their position. That is what honest journalism is about, open information, not a bunch of industry insiders patting each other's backs. What do you, as a journalist, think?

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

The anger, as I read the posts, sprang from the fact that WJ sent invoices for the "no obligation" book after it was sent.

If you're sending people a free gift, great. But don't bill them for it later. Miss Manners will back me up.

djb

Reply to
Dave Balderstone

EXactly

Reply to
Leon

******

And if you're not, we're going to make you one! :o)

Reply to
Lobby Dosser

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