Where's Norm's TS spliter

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Hey Swingman
For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're included in other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went out to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments in reply to questions or points you raised...
At one point I said...

after
And then you said...

To which I say...
Correct - without safety devices like splitters and blade guards. Like I said early on in this discussion, my saws never had them. No - I do not insist they use these devices. They wouldn't get any work done if I did. They do however know to watch for the things that cause kickback etc. They know how to use the tools. The tools are still dangerous, but they know how to use them and they exercise great caution. Beyond that I can't guarntee no accidents. The best I can do is educate them and instill good practices. Fortunately, they follow those.
Then, at another point you said...
"Leon" wrote in message

on
not
and
Well, nothing protects you from harm all of the time. I do advocate knowledge and practiced awareness over blind reliance on "safety" devices though. As I've said repeatedly, I'd never suggest someone should not use a splitter, or a guard, or any other device. In fact, I've never said I would never use one. I'm interested in something that will actually work on a saw and I look into these frequently. Most of what I've seen though is more gadgety than useful. What I do think is outright foolish is exactly what I referenced before - blind reliance on these things. A reliance that breeds statements like "not using a splitter is just stupid". Statements like that only reflect that the speaker does not understand much at all about the way table saws have been used for decades, but is suddenly an expert because of what he reads in a newsgroup. That type of person is more dangerous than my 10" saw with no guard. You've got to admit - those comments are frequent here.

Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest in understanding one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the general availability of common sense.
--

-Mike-
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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

in
I can't understand why? ... must be the manifestation of that paranoia of mine from getting old(er). ;)

in
general
I am glad that you recognize that, Mike ... and I respect both your actions with regard to the splitters and the reasons for that action. You've obviously given the issue some thought.
I never once advocated that any answer to my question would necessarily be correct, just that honestly answering it would get at the underlying reason of why folks either use, or do not use, a device like a splitter.
Some folks obviously don't like to look that deep into the reasons for what they do, or worse, advocate what other's do.
--
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included
out
in
actions
reason
what
Hey - you made it through Earthlink this time! Something has really been boogering up usenet for the past couple of days.
--

-Mike-
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Tom, great post! The point about keeping the wood ON the saw and AGAINST the fence is one of the main reasons I remove the splitter most of the time. I get much more leverage by having the blade just above the workpiece so I can have a push block that rides over the blade if necessary for narrow cuts rather than struggling with how to push through that last little bit of projectile that got hung up between the blade and the fence. For wider cuts I use roller hold downs that are anti-kickback devices and these work well if the blade isn't lifting the workpiece and twisting it out of the grip of the roller, again, the long push block helps this situation. Both of these situations are worsened by the commercial splitter/blade guard.
If wood is going to close down it will start closing down immediately after it leaves the blade and is going to pinch the blade anyway even with a splitter. The worse case scenario is if the wood closes down enough to hit the leading edge of the splitter that is several inches behind the blade. It seems to me that a splitter, to be useful on the gnarly wood that tends to close down quickly, is only useful if the splitter is slightly less than the thickness of the cut AND is positioned immediately behind the blade. A splitter that meets this requirement would need to be repositioned based on the blade height - a very complicated mechanism and one that is either unreliable or very expensive.
I do use the splitter/guard for some cuts. When I am cutting wood that is splintery (like plywood) or lots of dust, like MDF, then I use the guard to keep the little 'bits' from flying all over the place. I also use it when I am ripping long boards (where I am positioned relatively far from the saw) simply because I am not comfortable to have the blade running 'free' when I am not near enough to prevent something from striking it - I'll admit that this might be less logical but it reduces my fear, which, as you aptly point out, is debilitating. But, again, I am using it as a guard, not a splitter in this case.
For me, the best safety devices, besides the brain, are the anti-kickback rollers, the push block, and featherboard.
No matter how you slice it (no excuse for the pun) a TS is a dangerous piece of equipment that requires careful and knowledgeable practices to use it safely. Reliance on safety devices that don't improve safety but provide over confidence is more risky IMO.
TWS
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Also, it's a good idea to learn to use the tablesaw drunk. That way, when you're sober, it feels no more dangerous than watching television.
Ken Muldrew snipped-for-privacy@ucalgazry.ca (remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
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I use the Delta Removeable splitter that comes with the Overarm Guard, orderable as a service part for less than $30. I've had several experiences that remind me to put it in, whenever I'm done with the crosscut sleds. I also seem to get better results on the materials I use.
However...
One evening last week, while watching an older NYW on the TiVo, my eldest son was giving me unmitigated crap for 'instructing Norm on technique', while he built some project or another.
Do things the way that makes you comfortable. Be willing to learn from others. Smile as you enter, and leave, your workspace.
Patriarch
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:26 -0500, "Woodchuck"
My impression was that hardly anyone in the USA used them. Here in Europe we're beyond splitters and into riving knives.
My own saw just has several inserts. Some have splitters, some are short ones, some are penetrating splitters with a guard on top.
--
Smert' spamionam

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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

I don't think that's true ... I know a number of "pro" woodworkers/cabinet makers of many years experience and it may surprise you to find that a good many of them use splitters on their cabinet saws in the shop. And just about everyone I know with a cabinet saw in their garage/ship uses one.
Where I rarely see a splitter is on a contractor's saws on a job site.
--
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"Woodchuck" wrote in message ...

If you're really having trouble keeping your splitter "straight", a damn good argument can be made that it may well be doing its job.
--
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Woodchuck wrote:

The scars on my left hand from July 2003 remind me to *always* use the splitter.
-- Mark
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Besides, blood seems to cause rust on the TS top as quickly as sweat. ;-)
-- Mark
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Bought my TS about 16 years ago, and removed the splitter after about a month or so. Felt it was more hinderance than help - and besides, Norm never uses one!
If I see the wood closing up even slightly, I power the saw down and put a little wedge or 10 penny on the cut side. This happens a few times a year, but I don't use it every day like a pro.
Now, after disclosing this, I will likely get "beaned" on my next cut.
Lou

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I was going to post about how it happens to me more than half the time, but then I remembered that I got a deal on a load of roughcut red oak tubafors, which is what I've been using to build the workbench stand and frame some shop stations. Now that I think about it, just about all the pieces that immediately bent back in towards the blade were from that batch. That's what made me so glad to have that homemade splitter. Perhaps it won't happen so often with the next batch.
Dan
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I have never seen a splitter/guard on David Marks TS either. Here's a proposition. I have an older Rockwell contractor special 1 1/2 hp TS. It is used quite a bit and I don't use a splitter or a blade guard. This may sound crazy to some, but I'm perfectly comfortable running it that way. On rare occasions, I have cut a board that gets wild and either wants to spread apart or close together and pinch the blade. Whenever a board has gotten squirelly, I have been able to put firm pressure against the board and keep it there, the motor will bog down and i can shut the saw off and hold it there until the blade stops. HOWEVER, if the saw had, say 3 hp, I don't think this would be safe, as the motor wouldn't bog down as easily. In this case, I think a splitter would definitely be warranted. At work, I use a portable TS regularly. Same situation here-no splitter as it was integrated into the worthless guard. It's not unusual for construction lumber to be "case hardened" and get crazy when ripping. That saw will bog down real easy and will trip the breaker. That said, and keep in mind I use a TS on a regular basis, I don't feel a splitter is necessary on lower hp saws. Higher hp saws definitely. BUT, keep in mind the TS is probably the most dangerous tool in the shop. If you are somewhat skittish running your saw by all means, get a splitter and use your guard. Ultimately, it's your fingers, and how comfortable you are having them around a spinning blade. --dave
.

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I TS to close width leaving final width after a light pass or two on the jointer. Just habit. But you're right, I've noticed burn marks on occasion as well. --dave

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Ok, who taught you to get close with a TS and smooth up with a jointer???? "~)
My TS rips put my Jointer to shame when it comes to smoothness of cut.
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Just the opposite here. My TS has older 50" vega fence that has very slight concave over the legnth. Just enough to make glue joints have a noticeable gap. Light pass over jointer fixes this. In fact, i've been toying with the idea of running my TS fence through the jointer at super light setting to fix the fence problem. Sounds crazy, but may work. I'm just waiting until the jointer blades are close to needing replaced to do the deed. --dave
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slight
noticeable
Ouch! Why not use a long board and sandpaper glued to it to flatten it down? Much more controllable and surely less aggravating to your jointer knives.
--

-Mike-
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<snip>

Keep my Delta jointer close to my Tiawanese (sp?) cheapo TS for this reason.
You gotta play what's delt.
Lou
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