Where's Norm's TS spliter

[Mike Marlow]

Man - that had a biting tone. Sorry about that - I really did not intend such a harsh sound.

[Swingman]

Since you admittedly didn't read my original post, _you_ are the one speaking out of ignorance, with brain disengaged.

Without safety devices like splitters and blade guard? Answer the question ... do you insist that your children use such safety devices on the table saw?

[Swingman]

No offense taken ... I have a lot of respect for both yours and Tom's opinions and expertise.

[loutent]

Keep my Delta jointer close to my Tiawanese (sp?) cheapo TS for this reason.

You gotta play what's delt.

Lou

[Rick]

Tom,

Another wonderful work of art. You do have a way with words.

It's funny, how often I find myself forgetting the little simple facts of life when in the shop ... such as:

Just HOW fast could a piece of wood kick back on me? ( Given your 10" /3450 RPM saw ... about 102 MPH)

Will it hurt? (Yes, anything and everything in its path)

Thanks for passing along some wonderful wisdom obtained by calculation and observation.

Regards,

Rick

[Leon]

Did anyone say rely on a safety devise, It saves your butt when you make a mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending on your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not loose track of what is going on.

If "you" think you may become reliant as a safety device to protect you from harm, there in lays the problem. How many sane people will repeatedly pull the trigger on a loaded hand gun aimed at their head with out fear of being harmed because they know that the gun has a safety? I think a 10 inch saw blade spinning a t 3800 rpm may have a similar effect of keeping the fear factor up.

[Dan]

On Sun 21 Nov 2004 01:13:22p, loutent wrote in news:211120041413222886% [e-mail]:

I was going to post about how it happens to me more than half the time, but then I remembered that I got a deal on a load of roughcut red oak tubafors, which is what I've been using to build the workbench stand and frame some shop stations. Now that I think about it, just about all the pieces that immediately bent back in towards the blade were from that batch. That's what made me so glad to have that homemade splitter. Perhaps it won't happen so often with the next batch.

Dan

[Mike Marlow]

It is what comes out here. Look how often you see phrases like "if you don't use a splitter you are a fool", or "surely you'll end up with stubs for fingers if you don't use the super deluxe gadget-device". The advocates of devices or death clearly see it as the ultimate safety device. My point is only that your own common sense and knowledge is the ultimate safety device, and that allowing yourself to feel that you're doing the right thing just by having that gadget in place is sheer folly. As I mentioned - you hear more complaints of accidents and near accidents from those with all of the gadgets than from those without them. There is a greater harm in simply accepting everything that is posted in a newsgroup or is marketed by a company and taking refuge in that than there is in what might otherwise seem to be a more dangerous approach that is guided by knowledge and practiced awareness.

[CW]

Bull.

[CW]

Quite true. And the blade guards generally go on just before the OSHA guys show up and off after they leave.

[Swingman]

Precisely .. Mike seems to imply that "knowledge and practiced awareness" will always protect you from harm. Yeah, right ... in the ADD generation and the ones who spawned it ... for sure.

My point all along has been that you can't rely on commodities that are demonstrably in such short supply these days.

[patrick conroy]

Spooky... As I was mulling over Tom's first posting, I scribed your last two posts in my head. The first one tossing around the notion that if you want to be a pro you gott'a ditch the (alledged) safety device. The second one is what would I do if it was my kid in the shop.

[patriarch]

Tom Watson wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I'll give you a hearty AMEN on that one, Tawm.

And on most of the previous, as well.

Patriarch

[patriarch]

"Rick" wrote in news:x4bod.3594$ [e-mail]:

Well, Rick, some of us can add to that base of knowledge through direct experience, without the math. Not that that's what I had in mind...

Some folks are visual learners. ;-)

Patriarch

[Tom Watson]

Your question is foolish.

It presupposes that I would allow a child to use a saw if they were in any way less capable of using it safely than an adult.

I would not.

Regards,

Tom.

Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret. tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

[George]

I can only answer for my three kids and the hundreds at our school, where there is no splitter on the 50's Unisaw. Nope. But middle school shop classes don't use it.

The real answer is never let a kid use a tool unsupervised, until you're convinced they're capable. They convince you at length, not at a session. There are some who were never allowed use of the tablesaw, because they couldn't pass the first safety test, that of reaching beyond the blade without leaning.

[Swingman]

It is damned foolish to think otherwise.

I clearly stated "old enough to be in the shop". "Child" is your spin.

It's a perfectly cogent point/question as it speaks directly to the issue, removes the "pro's don't use them" argument, and illuminates your true feelings regarding the matter ... providing you answer it honestly, that is.

If you would insist that your kid use these particular safety devices in the shop, and you don't use them, then there is clearly an issue _other_ than safety involved.

We already know by accident statistics that a good many folks are just too damn lazy to avail themselves of safety devices like splitters and blade guards, and then condescendingly justify it with the macho bullshit that the "pro's don't do it".

[Swingman]

My point was not that "if you want to be a pro you gott'a ditch the (alledged) safety device", but was, in fact, spoofing that very idea/concept.

IMO, the answer to that question speaks volumes as to whether _safety_ is the real issue in some folk's minds.

[Leon]

"patriarch [e-mail]" Tom Watson wrote in

And apparently Tom's brain is primary and perhaps his only safety devise. I wonder if Tom has ever made a mistake doing something that he has been doing for years? Have you ever been in a car wreck? Your brain should be a primary safety device but absolutely not the only one. I will also note that I DO NOT use a guard but do use a splitter. And yes I know that it will probably be my fault when I get hurt AGAIN. I am not foolish enough to think that it will be "if" I get hurt again, I know that it will likely happen again. It took me 1 year to realize how I was injured as I was not cutting wood when my accident happened on the TS.

[Larry Bud]

That's not exactly the point. When it closes up it could kick back. The goal of the splitter isn't to save the board, it's to save your body.