Treated lumber for bird house

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Nope. Just some people who ignored warnings.
Anyone who read Tom Clancy's best-selling _Debt of Honor_ wasn't totally surprised of a commercial plane being used as a weapon.
(That's the one where a 747 crashed into the Presidential inauguration.)
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so you want Clancy to be the National Security Advisor?
dave
Bruce Barnett wrote:

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Why on earth do you say something as silly as that?
You did say "totally surprised" didn't you?
And the fact that the scenario was known to MILLIONS of people would suggest that this wasn't a case of "Gee - no one could POSSIBLY have ever expected it." And it's not as if Tom Clancy/Jack Ryan novels are unpopular for those involved in the U. S. government.

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millions of people did NOT expect airplanes to crash into the twin towers, bringing them both down, nor striking the Pentagon.
Why did YOU say something as silly as that??
dave
Bruce Barnett wrote:

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I didn't say they EXPECTED it to happen. But they were aware that it COULD happen.
Are you telling me that no one in the CIA and NSA ONCE thought of a possiblility that millions of people knew were possible? After it was the major premise of a best-selling book? After the "Jack Ryan" series became one of the most popular military action series ever?
If so, then the NSA/CIA guys would be "totally clueless" as well as "totally surprised."
I personally don't think that is the case. I don't consider each and every one of them to be complete fools.
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Tue, Jun 8, 2004, 6:58pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@wildcatpub.org <SNIP> People in your world shoot 50,000 other Americans a year. I guess they ran out of paper targets. BTW, almost every one of those people who shot other people were using their gun for the purpose for which it was intended.<g>
You need to get a few of your facts straight.
By the way, you pretty much seem to be pro-take the guns away from everyone. How you planning on getting them away from the drug dealers? Hell, if people can smuggle a ton of drugs in at a time, no reason they can't smuggle in a ton or two of firearms. Where we gonna be then?
Yep, I guess if you make a bunch more gun laws, and take the guns away people will be safe, eh? Washington D.C. must be really safe then. But, you might want to try checking the records on gun violence in Washington, before you start yapping more.
Yeah, I've read reports about how many kids are killed by guns, etc. The anti-gun people put that crap out all the time. But, gee, somehow they always fail to say how many were drug-related. And, when they put out a report about "youths" killed by guns, they seem to include people up to age 25.
Check the facts, right to carry states had violent crimes drop - after right to carry was installed. Can't recall what state made it legal to shoot carjackers. Carjacking went waaaay down, real fast.
Ah, you won't listen, no matter what anyone says to you. Closed mind.
JOAT You know it's gonna be a bad day, when you turn on the news and they're showing escape routes out of the city.
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    Greetings and Salutations....
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 18:40:10 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wildcatpub.org wrote:

    Not trying to throw gasoline on the fire here, but, this is an amazing thread. It only took five or six posts to turn into a useless flamewar over whether or not folks should have the right to possess guns. Got to love the Net.     For what it is worth, I think that using pressure treated wood for much of anything except building sills and uses that contact the ground directly is a bad idea. There are enough sources of toxins in the bird's environment now, we don't need to add an even closer one. Also, of course, the dust is pretty nasty for humans too.     As for the gun control argument that takes up the other hundreds of posts...     #1 - Gun control is a 1/2" group at 50 yards.     #2 - While it is true enough that America has problems, they are related more to the culture of mindless violence fostered by foolish mistakes in child rearing by parents, the weakening of standards in schools, and, the pervasive influence of television.     #3 - Americans "love" guns...and fight to preserve the shrinking abilities to own them without hindrance not because we are all homocidal maniacs, just waiting with bated breath for the chance to blow a hole in another citizen, but, because our founders realized that the only true protection that the citizens have against a government out of control is the last resort of armed rebellion. It may be true that this resort is getting further and further away from reality, but, it IS the way that this country was founded. "Working within the system", negotiations, diplomacy, were all tried and failed. About the only GOOD thing that came from all that effort was that Ben Franklin had a great time (and quite a number of them, if the records are anywhere near accurate).     #4 - many statistics have been bandied about in this, and, I am sure that everyone has had a grand time doing it. The fact is that there are vast areas of America where a person being shot and killed is a very rare occurence. There are parts of America where it seems the rule is that we can't have breakfast until somebody gets blown away. Interestingly enough, there seems to be a real correlation between population density and killings.     How about this...Let's agree that those of us in America who want to own guns, will buy guns. Those of us in America who DON'T want to own guns, can NOT buy guns. The rest of the world can do what ever their laws allow. Now...let's go back to debating Norm and his influence on woodworking.     I, for one, think that Norm, while he might have some lacks as a woodworker, performs a valuable service, in that he makes the hobby approachable and understandable, and, in some cases, helps folks understand that what I do in the workshop is difficult, requires skill and takes time     Regards     Dave Mundt
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what about a Scary Sharp chisel, Larry? That can cause grievous bodily harm!
dave
Larry Blanchard wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@nn.com says...

But seldom to several people at once :-).
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Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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Yes, now that Bayer has started marketing pesticides, I'm convinced aspirin must be unsafe.

I sure wish I had some Pentachlor wood preservative. My father had his garage doors replaced after a hurricane in 1983, cheap, basic doors of (untrested) pine frames with MDF panels. I was a teen then, and was prepping and painting them, and first I prushed on some Pentachlor preservative he'd bought. The doors were painted on the outside only (though I later did paint one on the inside). Painted twice in the past 20 years (due for another painting now). The bottom couple of panels have been under water for hours at a timethree or four times, and the bottom eight - twelve inches of the doors have been soaked for hours in minor floods probably a dozen times. The wood is in great condition, while I've replaced all of the hardware once, the springs twice, and probably should replace a few of the rollers again. It may wipe out all the wildlife in miles, give downwind neighbors cancer and explain why the cat had that pesky extra head, but, damn, it sure preserved that wood!
(I wore rubber gloves, a respirator and goggles when I applied the stuff, and *still* got a drop spalshed in my eye. My father, a chemical engineer, phoned while I was rinsing my eye out, and freaked out, wanted to come take me to the ER.)

I replaced the pesticide foggers I used regularly in my workshop with lizards. Well, the lizards (geckos) moved in, and I found I no longer had the recurring problem with crickets getting into my woodpile.
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Imagine that. A toxic poison. Who'd a thought .

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the stuff they have now is not as effective. Can you understand that bit of science, you smart-assed twit?
dave
CW wrote:

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Birdhouses are one of my specialties and I now mostly work with pine. Surprising enough, even cedar is considered by many to be too toxic for birds. I don't know anything about AC2 but I would not use it.
Neal

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I don't like working with PT lumber, although I recently constructed a park bench using it. You should work with it outdoors and with a properly fitted dust mask. The splinters from PT wood are nasty and take a long time to heal. For bird houses, I prefer pine. One pine house is over 18 years old and still in use today--I think the tar shingle on the roof helped preserve it. I also built a bat house, made from pine.
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I toiled for a while at a Wild Birds Unltd store. The manager/owner knew her stuff and was vehemently against ANY finish on the wood, even those that are "non-toxic" for humans. She felt that not only were the birds susceptible to the treated wood itself but also to the outgassing that cannot be prevented. Her recommendation was to use untreated, unfinished pine. Yes, it will decay, but no, the birds won't.
Bob

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Indyrose wrote:

I think the big problem is that birds are quite sensitive to substances that a human wouldn't even be aware of. For example, miners used to use canaries as warning of the presence of toxic gases--the canary would die long before the buildup was high enough to harm the miners, so they'd know to get out or ventilate in plenty of time. That being the case, with anything that birds are going to live in I think it is best to err on the side of caution.
Googling "birdhouse pressure treated" got one 8 year old extension service link that said it was OK, the many, many others said not to.
<http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bhbasics/bhbasics_index.html has lots of good information on birdhouses. Since it's part of a research project being conducted by the Cornell Ornithology lab which is one of the top avian research organizations in the world, I think anything they say you can pretty much take as gospel, and one of the first things they say is "untreated wood".
I suspect that heart cedar with an asphalt shingle top would last a good long time.
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--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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Do not use treated lumber. There are a lot if toxins that can hurt birds out there.
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