Treated lumber for bird house

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And RPGs are safe! When's the last time someone in the US was killed or maimed by an RPG? Why donuts kill thousands more people than RPGs and we aren't banning donuts! I WANT MY RPG!<g> Great for target shooting. You can't miss!

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wrote:

have very many "gun loons" here, certainly not in comparison to the number of anti-gun loons.

Yes, but that's largely, if not mostly, due to the absolutely insane policy of locking up non-violent drug users and turning violent felons loose on the streets. Clearly the widespread criminal misuse of firearms _is_ a crime-control problem: jurisdictions that lock up violent felons, and keep them locked up, have far lower rates of all types of violent crime.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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wrote:

waiting for you to produce a citation for this absurdity. I won't hold my breath while I wait.
Meanwhile, look at this:
http://www.pgs.ca/index.php/Prevention/35
"Both the number of firearms per capita and the total of firearm deaths per population in the US are about three and a half times the Canadian rate." [From "Small Arms and Health in Canada and the United States", an address to the United Nations Conference on the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons, 4th paragraph]
And this: http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm
Guns per capita in Canada: 0.25 Guns per capita in the U.S.: 0.82 Firearms death rate per 100K population: 4.3 in Canada, 11.4 in the U.S.
Yes, folks, that's right: with 3.3 times as many firearms per capita as Canada, the United States has only 2.7 times as many firearm *deaths* per capita.
Other interesting statistics from that site: 27.3% of Canadian homicides were committed with firearms, versus 66% in the United States -- but, on average, 25% of Canadians own firearms, versus 82% in the United States. Clearly, of the two, _Canada_ is the one with a firearm violence problem.
And even more interesting, nearly half (46%) of Canadian firearm homicides were committed with handguns. I thought that Canadian law made handgun ownership very difficult?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Legal ownership, Doug. Only legal ownership.
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dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca wrote:

But making it illegal to own handguns prevents people from owning them, doesn't it?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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;-)
I'd be curious to drill into that 46% figure further, as to geographic location (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal?) and legal versus illegal.
The vast majority of Canadian long gun owners are in rural Canada. I'd bet the vast majority of handgun deaths in Canada are caused by illegal handguns in major urban centers.
Have a look at these stats <http://www.lufa.ca/causes_of_death.asp
In 1999 in Canada, non-firearm homicides were 311, more than twice the number of firearm related homicides (151).
Looking at the chart at the link above, it seems to me that if somebody is going to kill somebody else, they'll find a weapon one way or another.
djb
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While I feel the hazards have been somewhat sensationalized, I would not give children pressure treated wood for their projects.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Surely you don't think this is positive? Please tell me that. You seem to be a reasonable man -- whose politics admittedly run roughly orthogonal to mine -- but this is a very lame argument. For example, nobody says that the curve is linear; in fact, almost it certainly is not. Or perhaps only the violent Canadians own guns and the non-violent ones do not. Let us take a hypothetical case; let us say that only Canadians intent on killing someone bought a gun. Then the gun ownership level would be 0.000043. Would this make Canadians insanely gun crazed homicidal lunatics, since 100% of our owners killed someone? There are numerous other reasons possible. Or, perhaps Canadians who own guns really are more inclined to use them; however more Americans per capita are still inclined to shoot people. Surely this is cause for concern, regardless of how many guns are owned?
Or perhaps you are not aware that the Canadian homicide rate (regardless of cause) is much lower?

The get 'em from the US :) Actually, it is not *that* difficult; more a bother owning one then getting one, since you need a permit to move it from -- for example -- home to the range.
But regardless of your position, surely you don't actually believe that the 11.4 rate vrs 4.3 is a good thing?
Living here, I can tell you that many Canadians really do believe we have a problem with crime since our rates are much higher then other countries like France. The American rates are much higher again.
Like I said before, it is quite obvious that guns alone are not responsible. Perhaps it is reversed; Americans own guns because they are more violent, not the other way around. But you have to at least give it consideration.
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I know that. It was pointed out mostly tongue-in-cheek to tweak the idiot who made up that lie about gun ownership rates in Canada supposedly exceeding those in the U.S. when the fact is that the Canadian rate is less than one-third the U.S. rate.
Still, the fact that the U.S. has 3.3 times as many firearms per capita as Canada, and only 2.7 times as many firearm deaths per capita, suggests that the belief that higher rates of firearm ownership equates to higher rates of firearm deaths is a highly questionable belief at best.

That, in fact, is IMO the most likely explanation for the discrepancy. Just read "criminals" for "violent" and "law-abiding citizens" for "non-violent."

Criminal misuse of a firearm certainly is cause for concern. You may be interested to know that the National Rifle Association supports _lengthy_ prison sentences for those who use firearms to commit crimes. And I entirely agree. Allowing armed thugs to roam the streets (as we unfortunately do all too often in the U.S.) while we lock up people whose only "crime" was smoking a joint in their own living room is _nuts_.

Yes, I knew that.

Not exactly, but OTOH if it tracked the difference in ownership rates it would be 14.2 vs 4.3. Thus, the correlation between ownership and violent use seems to be tenuous at best.

It's certainly a complex issue.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:54:22 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

You forgot this. Crime Statistics (Rate per 100,000) Murders with Firearms 7.9x higher in the US Murders with Handguns 14.5x higher in the US.
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wrote:

Yep, 3.3 times as many. But BillNorris said it was *less*.

Hey, Bill, let's talk about your false claim that gun ownership per capita in Canada was higher than in the U.S. I scoffed at that, and you wondered it that was because of all the "gun loons" in the U.S.
Then I demonstrated that you were lying.
Let's talk about that awhile. Why are you so afraid of guns, that you have to make up lies about them?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 01:00:15 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Higher gun ownership in Canada. You have more guns per capita. We have more gun owners per capita. Americans are gun nuts. They don't own one or two. They own dozens. Car might be up on blocks in front of your trailer but you have 15 guns.
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wrote:

False, and you know it. I cited the statistics. In case you've forgotten already, it's 0.25 guns per capita in Canada, and 0.82 in the U.S.

True -- but you just contradicted yourself.

False, and you know it.

Some are, most aren't. I'll bet there are "gun nuts" in Canada, too. But you're too biased to see that.

Showing, once again, how ill-informed you are. My neighbor across the street (the one you think I should live in fear of) has one. My brother owns two. I own six, and that's more than most people I know.

Shall I start stereotyping Canadians, then? No, you won't bait me into that. I've met enough of your countrymen to know that -- thank God -- most of them are not like you. And there are too many of them here on this newsgroup who are truly nice guys, who would likely be offended.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 03:06:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Doug, once people start comparing Doctors to guns the conversation has already reached the point of complete ridiculousness. I'm just trying to keep up.
Do you love your bullets Like Captain Compassion?;-)
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Bill, as a Canadian I have to say that you crossed that line quite some time back...
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On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:42:34 -0600, Dave Balderstone

A gun nut is a gun nut. I'm just glad people like you are few and far between in Canada.
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LOL!
Now you've moved to "barking moonbat" status.
See ya!
BTW, you voting Green or NDP on June 28?
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Not that few and far between Bill....Some of the better days I've spent are with a trunk load of misc handguns in a gravel pit or on a range plinking at cans and targets....legally and safely.
I have several long guns and several shotguns. All are registered, all are legal and all are used....no short guns though although I would if I could.
Leave it Bill, you're not the majority you think you are and you're certainly not speaking for a nation.
Rob
--


http://www.robswoodworking.com

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There's something about the way a 2-litre 7-Up bottle filled with water leaps into the air when hit by a thirty ought six at about 100 yards, isn't there?
djb
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On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:19:10 -0600, Dave Balderstone

I've fired a WWII Thompson machine gun in a gravel pit. Of course that was years ago. I owned one of these. Colt Buntline 22 cal http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnumU76492 We used to shoot playing cards and cigarettes with that puppy.
Also a Browning left hand t-bolt 22 and James Bond's gun of choice a 22cal AR7. I even made a very illegal pistol grip for it (on topic woodworking) and had a dodad that converted it to full auto. I used to take it backpacking.
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