Treated lumber for bird house

[BillNorris]

I never insulted you. I said you are sick. Mentally ill. I feel sorry for people like you. But I worry sick about those unfortunate enough to be your neighbors.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Not according to the lawyers handling the suits against Boeing and the Airlines.

[Dave Hinz]

This isn't an insult in your mind? Wow.

The funny thing is, most of my neighbors come over to my place to shoot. Many coworkers come out to my place to shoot. Even people who have never touched a gun in their lives are keen on coming out, learning how to safely handle the machinery, and learn the enjoyment that comes in being able to use the physical and mental discipline needed to produce a decent group of holes in a piece of paper at a distance.

I also note a complete and utter response to the substantive points made in my post, and the evasion and apparent concession has been duly noted.

[D. Mo]

Hear ya on that one Dave. An the term arbitarirly defined as "assault " rifle is interesting. Has to do with the styling like having a flsh surpressor or "military" style stock. oesn't have anything to do with the letahlity of it. Most shooting deaths in the US are by .22s. Which most people won't call an assault rifle. Then again the M16 is a .222 Yep it's a high powered .22.

Me I only own four guns. An old Walther 38 my Dad picked up in Germany during WWII, a ,25 derringer five shot Webly aand two rifles I use to hunt with a British Enfield .303 (Infantry issue) and an 1897 Marlin lever action .38-55. Only things I'ver shot were game animals and the occassional hog for buthcering.

[Bay Area Dave]

Now THERE'S a special interest group!

Question: What do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

Answer: A good start! :)

dave

Edw>

[Paul Kierstead]

Some numbers from the US government,

2001, firearm death count was 29,573

Also from the same source, 2001 again, homicide (not necessarily from firearms) was the #2 killer for ages 15-34, the #4 killer from ages 1-9 and the #6 killer from 35-44. These numbers include accidents, illness, etc.

For non-fatal injuries from firearms, there were 63,012 for 2001. This does *not* include BB guns and pellet guns.

Total injuries and deaths from firearms in 2001 in the U.S.: 92,585

That is 253/day, 10/hour or about one every 5 1/2 minutes.

Backed up well enough for you?

[Bay Area Dave]

you are able to diagnose over the 'net? That's pretty amazing, but I think a bit unethical. We'll have to get your medical license lifted...you DO have a license to practice don't you??

dave

[e-mail] wrote:

[BillNorris]

Yes I do. But it's only valid for usenet diagnoses.;-)

[Bay Area Dave]

:)

I'm still posting with my learner's permit.

dave

[e-mail] wrote:

[Dave Hinz]

29000 seems to be a smaller number than 50000.

How many of these are suicides? How many are criminal-on-criminal violence? How many of them are in places where gun control prohibits honest folks from protecting themselves, making them easy (and safe) targets of armed criminals?

[Paul Kierstead]

Just to be clear, that is for injuries and deaths. Deaths alone should be about 1/3 that, or about every 15 minutes or so.

Now the US is a big place with a lot of people, so the whole 15 minute thing is really a bit bogus. However, the homicide rates tell us that either

a) Death via accident and illness is *insanely* low or b) The US has a serious problem with Homicide.

You can easily verify yourself by comparison to countries of similar culture and wealth that the US is comparable for (a) and that (b) is true. I won't do all your research for you.

However, I will admit that quite a few countries have high gun ownership without a coorsponding high homicide rate, so it is quite apparent that gun ownership itself is not the cause. Whether it contributes is, of course, open for debate and extremely difficult to measure with any level of certainty.

All that being said, go do some woodworking. And make something nice, not dangerous :)

[Bay Area Dave]

14,454 gun related deaths in 2001

dave

Dave H> >

[Bay Area Dave]

14,454 gun related SUICIDES in 2001

dave

Dave H> >

[BillNorris]

I love this one. LAKEWOOD - A 36-year-old Lakewood man was killed Wednesday while trying to teach his 13-year-old son about gun safety, police say.

Investigators say the man was trying to show his son how to deal with intruders when the gun went off at their home in the 100 block of South Kendall Street around 3:45 p.m.

A bullet struck the man in his head. He died at St. Anthony's Hospital a short time later.

No names have been released.

Police said the teen thought the gun was unloaded when it went off. At this time, police have not decided if they will file charges against him.

------- What this report fails to include is that the guys two daughters aged 10 and 7 were in the room at the time as well. The moron was teaching them how to do a quick draw from under his bed pillow. I wonder if the shooter inherited the guns.

[Paul Kierstead]

Why should I run those numbers for you? Does it matter? The point was that a lot of violence (or accidents) happens with firearms.

I didn't say anything about conclusions; in fact, I very much avoided saying anything of the sort. However, you disputed the numbers, I gave you the numbers. It is now up to you to go further.

Yes, I agree 29000 is much lower then 50000. Actually was still higher then I thought it was myself.

Don't assume I am a gun control fan. I remain on the fence about the issue (see the follow-up to my own post for some of the reason why). However, I do not dispute that there is an awful lot of violence associated with them. That is cause to examine the issue; I don't believe a conclusion can be reached yet.

I suspect that no matter how I broke down the numbers you would eventually fall back to the old adage "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". So I say screw it, no point in arguing either way.

[Roger L]

Dave,

Very easy to disprove the old "Every Fourteen Minutes" bit, or even worse the 50,000+ bit with simple math. Most people tend to believe what they believe rather than think.

Simple way to look at it is by examining with facts and make your own assumption.

Say we believed the 14 minute bit, than the following states would have the following gunshot deaths.

Okalahoma 449 per year or 1.23 a day Virginia 939 per year or 2.57 a day.

Now if you live in those states watch you local news and you should expect to hear about the same amount of deaths reported per day for the ENTIRE year . This is of course under the assumption that a "gunshot" death is news worthy. LOL

Now if we use the 50,000 per year number we come up with :

Minnesota 869 per year or 2.38 per day Florida 2,904 per year or 7.95 per day

Somebody in FL please watch the late news and report how many gunshot victims are in the news tonight.

Since in fact nobody can come up with an accurate source for these bogus Gunshot numbers, it is a lot easier to disprove it using simple factual math. I can only assume that the people who believe these numbers, are bad at math, and are the same people you see standing in line at the lottery.

Roger L

[Bay Area Dave]

that report ALSO makes me wonder if it was truly accidental. While this particular incident was most likely an accident, how do you PROVE conclusively that someone was killed accidentally as opposed to "accidentally on purpose"? Perry Mason could figure it out, but how about real life detectives?

dave

[e-mail] wrote:

[BillNorris]

Easier said than done. I was repairing a window frame this morning. I had to nip off a 15 gage finishing nail. The piece flew up and put a nasty nic dead center in my safety glasses.

[BillNorris]

I'm a people control fan. Simply look at the Swiss or even Canada. Both have far more guns per capita than does the US. The out of control shootings in the US is a mental problem.

[Paul Kierstead]

Nobody? Don't any of you have google? It takes about 2 minutes to cough up the CDC web site and you can run numbers all day long. The system allows you enough flexibility so that I am sure that you could support almost any theory you wanted to, so long as you do it on line without critical thinking.

Example stat it took me less then 1 minute to generate:

2001 Homicides, not including "legal intervention", from firearms: 11,348

All age groups, all races. Not 50,000. Does that make it good or bad? You be the judge. But don't claim that nobody can come up with an accurate source. If they don't, it is because they don't want to. And that goes for all sides of the argument.