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14,454 gun related SUICIDES in 2001
dave
Dave Hinz wrote:

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Why should I run those numbers for you? Does it matter? The point was that a lot of violence (or accidents) happens with firearms.
I didn't say anything about conclusions; in fact, I very much avoided saying anything of the sort. However, you disputed the numbers, I gave you the numbers. It is now up to you to go further.
Yes, I agree 29000 is much lower then 50000. Actually was still higher then I thought it was myself.
Don't assume I am a gun control fan. I remain on the fence about the issue (see the follow-up to my own post for some of the reason why). However, I do not dispute that there is an awful lot of violence associated with them. That is cause to examine the issue; I don't believe a conclusion can be reached yet.
I suspect that no matter how I broke down the numbers you would eventually fall back to the old adage "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". So I say screw it, no point in arguing either way.
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wrote:

I'm a people control fan. Simply look at the Swiss or even Canada. Both have far more guns per capita than does the US. The out of control shootings in the US is a mental problem.
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wrote:

Citation, please?
Switzerland, I maybe could believe -- but the claim that Canada has more guns per capita than the United States seems ludicrous.

No, it's a crime-control problem.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 22:16:39 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Why? Because they don't go around shooting each other like the gun loons in the US?

The US has more people in jail per capita than any other first world country. One in every seven men in ther US ends up in prison.
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On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 22:37:37 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wildcatpub.org

Yet another bullshiat statistic made up by BillNorris. Cite, please? I don't know *anybody* who has ended up in prison. Not one person. The total population of the US is. No. Not gonna do it. Back up your own bullshit statement or retract, BillNorris. Basic math - Let's see your figures.
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I'll find it but here's one for you to start with.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2001945656_jdl03.html Every year more people are placed behind bars because of their failings as individuals and our failure to mend holes in our social programs.
This year's report from the U.S. Department of Justice said 2,078,570 men and women were behind bars at the end of last June, an increase of nearly 58,000 over the year before.
We lock people up at a higher rate than any other country.
There were 715 inmates for every 100,000 U.S. residents last June. Mexico's incarceration rate is 169 per 100,000, and Canada's rate is 116.
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On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:00:33 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@wildcatpub.org wrote:

LOL! I made a typo! How I converted seventy-five to seven is bizarre. I think when I back spaced to put in the hyphen I accidentally erased it and the five following. here is the report I was referring to. http://www.minjok.com/english/index.php3?code $054
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wrote:

ROTFLMAO!
Translation: you got caught inventing something, and you're hoping that this quick backpedal will save your bacon. Nice try.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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totally unfair comment; I make typos all the time. it hardly reflects a sinister intent on Bill's part.
dave
Doug Miller wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@wildcatpub.org wrote:
<snipped>

715/100000 = .7 % (that's point 7 percent). 1 in 7 = 14 %
A bit of a difference I'd say.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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Whilst I don't wish to get involved in this debate, I'll just point you that you two are debating apples vs. oranges. Bill stated that one in seven end up in prison - that's over their entire lifetimes, one in seven will spend some time in jail. He didn't state that one in seven are currently imprisoned.
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wrote:

Or better yet, as a friend of mine suggested, replace the current tangle of state and Federal drug laws with just one: "Here's a list of the stuff we don't like. If you're caught with anything on the list, whatever you have, you gotta eat."
Possession of small quanitities for personal use would be effectively decriminalized. And narcotics dealers would receive an instantaneous death sentence. Either way, society wins.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug, did we go to school together? I've been saying this since college.

Yup.
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Not as far as I know :-). I picked that up from a guy I used to carpool to work with. His name's Randy Wahl. Great guy. Into doing Civil War reenactments. Maybe you went to college with him?
FWIW, in about 1998 I met a man who was the head of the DEA's Columbia River Valley Drug Task Force, in Wenatchee WA. Fascinating fellow, full of amazing stories. I mentioned this idea to him, and after he stopped laughing, he said "I love it! My agents would sure have to spend a lot less time in court!"

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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OK, I don't know where in this thread to jump in!
Yea, guns don't kill people, people kill people. That really is the point. Why do we own guns, historically, pre 1900.
Here are a few reasons off the top of my head. 1) To put food on the table 2) For protection from wildlife, including the 2 legged kind. 3) To provide protection from totalitarian rule.
OK, So what are the reasons to own guns in 2004? 1) For sporting and competitive use 2) For protection from wildlife, including the 2 legged kind. 3) To provide protection from totalitarian rule.
It seems not too much has change since the invention of the gun.
BTW - Number 3 in both cases above is the reason for the second amendment. The second amendment was part of the checks and balances built into our constitution. Any limits on ownership of weapons increases risks of us loosing our freedoms! There wouldn't be a USA w/o private ownership of guns.
Flame away! ;)
-B
wrote:

country.
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On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:53:42 -0400, A Complete Fool "Brikp"
LOL! Everyone in Iraq owned a gun under Saddam. Anyone could buy one. Full automatics. Saddam encouraged gun ownership.
What good is your gun against a laser guided smart bomb or a tank. You best be lobbying for RPGs, they seem to be effective in Iraq against your military.
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Seems you are beginning to take my point to the next level. Restrictive weapons policies impede the purpose of the second amendment. RPG, tanks, etc should be allowed if you follow through to logical conclusion.
;)
wrote:

your
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Even high-yield thermonuclear devices. Provided, of course, that the owner is able to post a bond of, say, a trillion dollars, to cover any damages incurred by an accidental detonation.
[snip more of Bill Norris' unsubstantiated baloney]
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 19:28:27 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Not very well read are ya Doug.
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