To My Friends In South Texas This Evening

Page 4 of 10  
jo4hn wrote:

It is scientism. Google that word.

What, distrust of climatologists? Skepticism is a necessary part of the scientific process--anyone who is calling the climatologists liars is behaving more like a proper scientist than all the folks who are saying "we should trust them because they are scientists".

Oh, now _there_ is a compelling rebuttal if ever I saw one.
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J. Clarke wrote:

The opposite of scientism or anti-scientism if you want. It's the idea that if one spouts anything long enough and loudly enough, it will be believed. It will still not be true however. A good example is calling climatologists liars without any *scientific* proof.
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jo4hn wrote:

Well, that is exactly what the global warming people are doing, spouting something loud and long and hoping to be believed. And launching personal attacks at anyone who questions them.
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jo4hn wrote: ...

Well, we've just learned of a significant amount of proof in falsification and misrepresentation of data and in scheming to prevent dissenting scientific opinion and research from being accepted...
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Few people will trust the weather service to get a forcast for the next week right but they believe that weather patterns on a globale scale can be predicted with accuracy.
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On 12/08/2009 03:03 PM, CW wrote:

I can't predict when I'm going to die, but the life insurance companies can predict with pretty good accuracy how many people will die this year across the whole country.
Chris
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On 12/08/2009 03:03 PM, CW wrote:

I can't predict when I'm going to die, but the life insurance companies can predict with pretty good accuracy how many people will die this year across the whole country.
Chris
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Pretty much it in a nut shell CW!
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I do a lot of it myself and miss some events in longer terms. Over two or three days they and I are rather close. A lot of times I win. I don't keep score as it is a non-perfect science and way to complex for a computer to simply determine.
As one example - I had two front lines pass over us today. Then they reversed and split further apart the second one passed over us twice again.
I trust and hope both are now done with the retrograde plays.
I've been doing weather prediction for 35 or 40 years. Longer than most local weather people. I trained under, by watching and listening, Howard Taft out of Ft. Worth and he was IIRC a U.S. Reserve "General" weather officer. He gave insight as to why and how. He was a WW vet and I believe long in passing.
Martin
CW wrote:

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Not going to be sucked into this pissing contest but... It was actually Harold Taft.
Larry
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:03:08 -0800, the infamous "CW"

Even though the IPCC has had to make severe downward revisions to all of its predicted rises in each and every subsequent report over the years, and even though it is a highly political unit, people hang with bated breath over their newest reports. Go figure.
Update: IPCC still clings to theory that the CRU didn't provide any modified or corrupt data so their 4th report stands as released. Go figure.
Aw, shit. It's 11F (-12C to you Canucks) here this morning and my pipes are frozen for the very first time since I've been in Oregon. Damned AGWK!
-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson
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: Mark & Juanita wrote: : > Swingman wrote: : > : >> Larry Jaques wrote: : >> : >>> I've been on the environmental bandwagon for nearly 40 years, but I no : >>> longer call myself an environmentalist because of what the movement : >>> hath wrought. I think ecoterrorists may outnumber the greenies now. : >>> <sigh> : >> As a home builder with a recent, alternative construction, "green" : >> project under my belt, I can guarantee you that more waste hit the land : >> fills due to its "green" nature then in any two of my usual traditional : >> construction projects. : >> : >> .... still marveling at the sheer, unconscious ignorance of many of the : >> misguided folks who have embraced this "movement" ... all warm, fuzzy, : >> self congratulatory, and without a clue! : >> : > : > Read something today that makes a lot of sense regarding this. There are : > two camps of people, materialists -- those people who say that there is a : > material universe which behaves in a consistent way, and if you study it you : > can learn the way it works, and teleologists -- those who say that the : > universe is an ideal place. From what I read: : > "More or less, it exists so that we humans can live in it. And human : > thought is a fundamental force in the universe. Teleology says that if a : > mental model is esthetically pleasing then it must be true. Teleology : > implies that if you truly believe in something, it’ll happen." : > : > <http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/06/government-by-wishful-thinking/ : > : > The people you describe above Swingman are of the latter persuasion. They : > don't care if what they want to try hasn't worked before -- it just wasn't : > done correctly, they are going to do it correctly. If the idea of a "green" : > economy feels good, by golly, it will be good. Ignore those niggling little : > details like more waste or less available resourced -- by golly it FEELS : > good! : > : So the doomsayers on the right believe that doing nothing besides : reciting mantras such as "there ain't no such thing as global warming", : that the problem will go away. And further that there never was a : problem and that scientists lie for any reason. Wow. Thank you for : clearing that up.
I thought these scientists (and Big Al, of course) stand to make brazillions and brazillions of dollars. Why else would you want to dream up and perpetuate such a huge hoax?
Dave in Houston
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On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:53:46 -0800, the infamous jo4hn

There -ARE- no doomsayers on the right, jo4hn. All you Chicken Littles are on the left.
And most of us on the right don't say there is -no- global warming, we're saying that there is no cause for alarm and that man isn't causing it. It's far mellower than you lefties rant about. Earth is still coming out of the last ice age on a very slowly warming trend, not the left's hockey stick.
Go watch _Day After Tomorrow_ again and get your facts straight. ;)
-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson
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Swingman wrote:

Follow the money. Gore and his ilk stand to "make" hundreds of millions, if not billions, at the hand of government interference in markets. This is now, and has always been, a movement about money and power, not a conservation activity.
--
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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Tim Daneliuk wrote:

Amen!
Matt (mostly lurking)
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Tim Daneliuk wrote:

But not all. People get involved in politics for one of three reasons:
* Pride - there are those who sincerely believe they are doing good for the planet * Power - there are those who just know that minding other people's business is a Good Thing(tm) * Profit - as you said
Often, a single person is motivated by more than one reason.
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On Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:58:34 -0600, the infamous Swingman

Please expand on that if you will, Swingy. What's the nature of the new waste? I've found that most of the new "green" products (the few which are available around here) are about 50% higher in cost than standard mat'ls, despite the trade mags showing only a 10% increase. And look what it's done to the cost of finishes. Waterlox has doubled in price since I last bought it, and their VOC-free finishes are higher than that: $105 per gallon now!

Oh, you're talking about Democrats, aren't you? ;) I'm all for the reduction of our human footprint, but Crikey, not at the cost of lives. A nasty side-effect of the fracking Green movement is that it retasks money which had previously been available for poverty. The movement is _killing_people_!
Both Bjorn Lomborg and Peter Huber cover some of those details in their books.
It's all that beatch Rachel Carson's fault. Come to think of it, she was the first large-scale clash of the true scientists with the emotional wreck "scientists". She may have pushed the very first Bad Science into mainstream public view, huh?
-- For me, pragmatism is not enough. Nor is that fashionable word "consensus."
To me consensus seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies in search of something in which no one believes, but to which no one objects; the process of avoiding the very issues that have to be solved, merely because you cannot get agreement on the way ahead. What great cause would have been fought and won under the banner "I stand for consensus"? --Margaret Thatcher (in a 1981 speech)
LJ sez: It's a good thing we have concensus on the case of Anthropogenic Global Warming (kumbaya), isn't it?
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Don't get me started ...
Project in question was alternative construction (straw bale wall) house, green material as much as possible throughout. Notice the plywood and framing material, steel and concrete going into just the foundation of this single family, new residential construction, of less than 2500sf:
http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/Foundation1 #
I've found that most of the new "green" products (the few > which are available around here) are about 50% higher in cost than > standard mat'ls, despite the trade mags showing only a 10% increase. > And look what it's done to the cost of finishes. Waterlox has doubled > in price since I last bought it, and their VOC-free finishes are > higher than that: $105 per gallon now!
We were going to use ureas formaldehyde, sustainable, bamboo plywood wood in the cabinets and built-ins until we found out the budget busting prices, upwards of $300/sheet.
Oddly enough, much of Home Depot's plywood (from Columbia Forest Products) is made with urea formaldehyde free glue.
Lowe's has "Fresh Aire", no VOC, paint which we used on the interior of this house ...I was quite happy with the results and the price wasn't all that out of line with other premium indoor paints.
I tried to get other low or no VOC products/stains from them that they advertise in other locales and was informed that they were not allowed to ship these across state lines??
Still trying to figure that one out ....
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Swingman wrote:

Add ^^^^
--
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On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:15:56 -0600, the infamous Swingman

Hayseuss Crisco, is that one inch rebar? Huh, a concrete foundation supported off the ground, on piers?!? Whut up wi dat?

You meant "urea/formaldehyde-free" didn't you? I've seen bamboo ply for cabinets as low as $94/sheet. I haven't seen it up close, though. But if the client wants it, just have them adjust their budget up for it. It's only a grand more for a really beautiful kitchen.

OK.
They've sure shot up recently, haven't they? Wow!

Maybe they're taking Clintoon's stance, depending on what the meaning of VOC is...
So, what brands are not shippable, please? I want to look into this deeper.
-- To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. -- Robert Louis Stevenson
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