Titebond II followup

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A while back I posted that my latest bottle of T3 was whiter5 and runnier than the last one. I wrote Titebond and they said the color was due to a different filler and the lower viscosity was probably due to it having been frozen in transit.
They sent me another bottle so I could try one that hadn't been exposed to cold weather. If there was a difference in the viscosity I couldn't detect it. I guess the new stuff is just a little thinner - maybe due to the new finer filler.
Still works fine - just have to be a little more aware of possible runs.
I have a habit of finishing first, dry clamping, applying paste wax along the glue line, un-clamping, applying glue, and re-clamping. So runs are not difficult to remove. But if you glue up before finishing, you might want to use T2 instead of T3.
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On 6/30/2014 7:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

I just exchanged e-mails with the TiteBond guys too. This is the poop on all of the "extend" and TBIII glue.
I found that TB extend was real runny until I got to the part that was not mixed. I advise you to do as instructed below to insure you are getting the extended open time and that you can use the whole bottle. Once you use the thin stuff and get into the thick stuff on bottom the glue is worthless, like squeezing out frosting.
I don't really care for mixing before each use myself but below is what is advised. My glue is non usable again from a bottle that is only 10 months old, that's 10 months from production date.
What he said,,
Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend Wood Glues all contain large particles to allow for longer open and assembly times. These products can settle and it is recommended to mix well before each use. Mixing must be done mechanically (i.e. with a stick) as tapping or shaking the bottle will not affect mixing of these high viscosity wood glues. Without mixing, the benefit of the larger particles will be lost and use of the un-extended versions may be better for your use.
No changes to the formulations for any of the Titebond Wood Glues have been made. New labeling is to better identify difference between product offerings. You mention three different products, Titebond III, Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend. I will send a sample bottle of one of these adhesives to make up for your loss of product mentioned below, but I cannot change the fact that these products will settle over time and mixing is necessary to allow for longer useful life of the adhesive for the whole container.
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On 6/30/2014 11:52 PM, Leon wrote:

This is eye opening to myself.
I used to use a lot of glue and bought the Elmers by the gallon. Never any problems.
Elmers seemed a little gummy and soft when sanded so I switched to Titebond. I now have dead tubes of various Titebond flavors and figured that it was something I was doing wrong.
What, I had not a clue until now.
How you stir a small bottle I can not imagine doing without creating a mess.

--
pentapus

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[...]

I wonder if inverting the bottle once a month would help -- store it right side up this month, upside down next month, and so on. Something of a nuisance, I know, but seemingly less of a nuisance than mixing it with a stick.
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On 7/1/2014 6:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Keep the bottle in the bathroom. Brush teeth, flip bottle.
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On 7/1/2014 5:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

But then, having somehow aged overnight, I have to work out some way of keeping the toothbrush only for the toothpaste.     grumble,     jo4hn
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On 7/1/2014 5:46 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

I was wondering the same. I think ultimately it will need to be mixed. Inverting might only move the "blob" from one end to the other. Sorta like flipping ends with a rattle paint can, the ball moves from one end to the other but does not mix the paint.
I will probably straighten a wire coat hanger and put a few slight bends in it and put one end in my drill.
Unfortunately once you get to the blob and have poured/used all the thin glue it is too late. You apparently should stir the first time you open the bottle and every day you use it.
Ultimately I think TiteBond should mention this on the bottle label.
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You brush your teeth only once a month? <g>
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I think that depends on the rate at which the large particles settle, and the frequency with which the bottle is inverted -- perhaps Titebond could be persuaded to conduct some testing.
Certainly if you don't invert it often enough, you'll wind up just moving the blob from one end to the other. There must be some inversion frequency, though, that prevents the blob from forming in the first place. My guess is that daily is more often than necessary but monthly might not be often enough. The only way to determine this is through experiment.
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On 7/1/2014 8:41 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

This might be true if you had the bottle shipped factory direct to you. Most of the new stuff on the shelves already is 4~6 months old and the blob is already there when you get it. This is evident by several of us thinking that the extend glues seem runny to begin with.

Consider this, I used to buy TBII Extend by the gallon. I was transferring this 16oz at a time to a smaller container. Using a spout from a smaller bottle to direct flow from the larger bottle required tipping the bottle almost upside down. That was not enough by a long shot. I did this about every 6~10 weeks. I have about 30% of the last gallon that is unusable now.
BUT monthly "might" work. However the rep specifically said that shaking and the like was not going to be adequate, I would think that flipping end for end might be similar to a less than desirable shake. ;~) And it was advised to mix "every time you use the product".
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On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 13:41:06 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

I guess there is always gorilla glue.
--
Mr.E

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On 7/1/2014 9:25 AM, Mr.E wrote:

The problem with Gorilla glue, the similar white kind, is that it does not have an extended open time like the TB Extend products. FWIW the white Gorilla glue is excellent and compares favorably to TB, TBII, and TB III products. Actually the "regular open time" TB products do not exhibit this symptom.
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On 7/1/2014 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:

Too bad, Franklin. I have better things to do than to fuck with stirring a bottle of glue with a stick through a 1" opening.
If this is not the bullshit that it sounds like (vigorous shaking before use won't make it usable), no way in hell I'm wasting my time with TBIII, and the quarter of bottle I have left after this morning's work will be the last.
--
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On 7/1/2014 12:35 PM, Swingman wrote:

That is what I am thinking and really a new bottle of glue for each project is not that big of a deal but hell you can't find any thing on the shelf that is less that 4~6 months old to begin with. It needs to be stirred right away.
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:52:45 -0500, Leon wrote:

Strange that they didn't mention any such thing to me. And the bottle says only "if thickened, shake vigorously ...". Nothing about it being thin. And your contact didn't mention freezing.
Also, as I'm a hobby woodworker with other hobbies, a bottle of glue sometimes lasts me for 2-3 years. I've never found any settling or clumping at the bottom. And they told you there'd been no change where my contact said they'd changed the filler.
I'm beginning to suspect they're pulling these responses out of a hat.
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On 7/1/2014 11:08 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

I was not having issues with the extend and or TB3 until the last year or so. I typically will go through 2~2 quarts in a 12 month period. Swingman and I both noticed the extend being darn near milk like right out of the bottle. The glue works but apparently had it been thicker, read that as properly mixed, we would have had longer open times.
I don't think your glue being frozen is what caused it to be thin so much as it sitting on the shelf and the particles used for extending the open time settling to the bottom. I suspect that the glue in the bottom of your bottle is very thick by comparison to that at the top.
Then again if there was no formula change perhaps the handling from production to the store shelf is causing an issue, especially since it was quite cold this winter.
Apparently that has no ill effect other than you will not have the longer open time and will not be able to use the whole bottle as it thickens.
Do you recall who you were getting this information from. My guy at TB was Bob Behnke.
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On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 00:25:53 +0000, Larry Blanchard wrote:

Oops - obviously the subject line should have said III, not II. Durn keyboard!
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On 7/1/2014 11:10 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

Not a problem as TB3 had an extended open time too and shares the same problems if you do not keep it thoroughly mixed.
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On 7/1/2014 12:35 PM, Swingman wrote:

I don't know why you'd go w/ TB III anyway, unless you really must have the lower chalk temperature (not sure about the extend version and that?) or the water resistance.
For roughly half the price why not just the regular Extend?
<http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id c6f86b-93cc-4400-99ed-79f8a75a2e95>
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On 7/1/2014 12:56 PM, dpb wrote:

TBII looked like a good bet when it come on the market. Complicated glue-ups where every minute counts; and cabinets used in occasionally wet environments, like kitchens and baths, where leaks, and repeated spills in the same areas, are not uncommon.
Granted, not that it makes that big a difference, but I do try to use materials in those type environments that make for a more robust end product, and push the odds in my favor at the same time, no matter how slight.
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