This is so cool! A 'safety' table saw that detects your finger.

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Hi Leon -
Just checked in the mirror.... and it is.
Cheers -
Rob
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the
Are any of your employees buying those used saws? Just for the purposes of discussion, it would be interesting to know how many of them would buy those older saw while at the same time being aware of why they are up for sale.
Any of those saws a General 650-T50 or 350-T50 ? If so I might be interested in one. And considering the topic at hand, the cost of a Sawstop is out of my reach, whereas a regular tablesaw is not out of reach. For me, anyway, it's a matter of having a standard cabinet saw or not having one at all.

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That "tad costly" has to be considered minimal when that accident(s) happen.
And of course, you're a business. You have a responsibility to the safety of your employees. Failure to adhere to that responsibility could cost LV dearly. I don't believe the average home owner would have the same viewpoint to safety that you're forced to adopt.
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ask!
April 3 eh? Got it bookmarked. Going to be sending invitations out? Barbeque in front of the store? Any opening day specials? I'll be there to inspect.
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You really think there's such thing as "concensus" in a usenet newsgroup?
Leon wrote:

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If you google this group for sawstop, you will find hours of reading ahead of you.
"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" <"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net"> wrote in message

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Ah, well, it was the first time I had seen or heard of it. Expensive and probably does have other problems (I'll read the previous writeups if I can find them). But still ... it's just sooooo cool.
Jack
CW wrote:

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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:58:47 -0700, "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" <"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net"> wrote:

That's what I expected, but from the (purely paper) details I've seen so far it appears to be a good high-end saw at a good price.
However I would never touch one of this company's products. The gimmick is a partial solution at best (simple guards already avoid most of these problems and it does nothing to stop kickback). Trying to enforce regulation to sell their product is underhand at best.
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Dave Balderstone quoted and replied:

Well, now I am really confused. You don't care, but you had to ask anyway. Just nosy?
Since I didn't post anything that required any kind of internet branded bravery, I can only assume you want my name for your Christmas list.... or maybe a long walk in the moonlight. So let me give you some real info about me. Let's not get hung up on names... I don't even care if Dave isn't your real name...
For my birthday, I would like nice steak and a good cabernet. Some roses would be nice too, you rascal. Gift certificates are always nice... I'm pretty easy to get along with.
And I did catch your earlier explusion of disbelief:

I checked with Mom, and big guy, it is indeed Robert. Whew!
I hope that doesn't mean I am off the Christmas card list.
Robert (for real!)
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Easy to get along with? Right! And, so am I if someone wants to bribe me. <g>
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On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:32:33 +0000, Andy Dingley

The biggest problem I have with it is that it's really unnecessary. A woodworker exercising reasonable caution has nothing to fear from the tablesaw, and anyone who is so terrified of it probably shouldn't be using it in the first place. There are thousands and thousands of woodworkers out there who have all of their fingers and toes after years of woodworking and they didn't need more than the guards and splitters that came with the tablesaw.
The safety saw is ridiculously expensive for what you get, and whenever it goes off, for whatever reason, it ruins your expensive saw blade, plus requires you to buy a new expensive brake insert. These things don't reset, people, you have to throw it away and start over fresh. And as you say, it doesn't do a thing against kickback and other real hazards.
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And there are thousands and thousands that have lost their fingers. Have you ever cut yourself ,EVER, with a knife? A lapse of judgement can be quite costly and NO ONE is incapable of having an accident regardless of how safely you think you operate a TS. It certainly is not necesssary but if you can afford it, it's well worth consideration.

I would rather the saw falsely trip 30 times and correctly on the 31st time than not trip at all.
These

Well in your own words, A woodworker exercising reasonable caution has nothing to fear from the tablesaw. With proper caution a kick back is not going to harm you either. That said, the saw does indeed have a riving knife that goes a long way in preventing kickback.
I wish you luck and to remain safe with your wood working.
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time
Ahh, but that could never happen. If your saw tripped falsely 30 times, you'd have hung yourself long before then.
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Upscale wrote:
<<Ahh, but that could never happen. If your saw tripped falsely 30 times, you'd have hung yourself long before then.>>
HAH! No kiddin'!.
On another note, I going to have to remember the logic in this thread when one of these guys has his teenage kiddo (who has used all tools since birth under strict supervision) whack off a finger due to a lapse in judgement. Or when one of the guys gets his shirt caught in a machine and it yanks him in (I am thinking of those farmers that have lost arms, etc. that I used to feel sorry for; now, set straight by this group I think they may have deserved it), or maybe in a crowded shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection, and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have deserved it.
I think that some are forgetting that professionals that use tools all day long get tired, but still have to work. They are sick, but still need to pay bills. You get tired, and in a Cinderella world, you go home and rest. But in the real world, deadlines loom. And the more tired you are, the more mistakes you make and the more accident prone you are. There is also the probablility of scale. Dinking around in your garage screwing with the tools when it isn't football season, holidays, family birthdays, anniversaries and on an on it not the same as doing work with machinery all day long, day in and day out.
Not everyone is some hobby guy working in half his garage when his wife lets him make a box or two for the grandkids, or put up a new shelf as a weekend project. If you use tools enough, you will get hurt. Period.
I think the saw is properly positioned in the market place. If you don't need it or want it, you don't have to buy it. What a concept. And those that do, can. And since some like the concept, that doesn't make them some kind of candy assed weenie. I would probably have them if I did more cabinets since I would feel better about they guys working with a table saw with a blade brake.
Many years ago I saw a young man slip on the concrete (clean by the way, it was an accident) while he was ripping MDF for new formica tops. He was at the end of the rip so he was pushing the 16" wide piece from the back, and in that position he thought he was going to go head first in the saw. He got both hands out to stop himself, but one came up a finger short. We finally found the finger, but at that time they were unable to connect anything more than the vessels, so it shrank up some after they sewed it on, but never worked right again. I know, I know. He never should have slipped in the first place.
And here's the topper for those that are worried about the cost. Since they reported have the brake problems all worked out, if you never stick your hot dog in the damn blade, it will never fire off, and you will never ruin your blade or the brake shoe. Just like I tell the guys that work for me, learn to keep your hot dog out of trouble and you will be a lot safer and happier. Wait... maybe it wasn't actually a hot dog when I was talking to them...
Robert
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I was thinking of an accident happening through no fault of your own. The dog comes in and brushes against your leg distracting you. Something falls off a shelf startling you. A power failure plunges you into darkness and you slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.
The more I read about this, the more I'm thinking a Sawstop is a pretty good idea, especially considering that I work from an awkward height ~ sitting in a wheelchair. But, for me anyway, it's way out of my financial reach. Besides, if I cut off a finger, it won't cost me anything up front, except a lot of pain and cursing. One advantage anyway, of our Canadian medical system.
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Upscale wrote:

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I don't recall anything about Sawstop still working for any length of time after the power goes out to prevent this. The owners manual http://www.sawstop.com/Cabinet_Saw_Manual.pdf page 11 of 100 says "To prevent loss of Sawstop protection during coast down, do not turn off main power until blade has stopped spinning." UPS for a table saw? Joe
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Good point. That might be a feature of "SawStop II", to be introduced about the time the patent on SawStop I runs out.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

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Good thought.
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I was referring to a residential power failure, not someone turning off the main power. It only takes a fraction of a second to cut off a finger. As far as I know, other than it's safety feature, the sawstop doesn't have a brake, so it will take a few seconds to spin down.
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All in how you look at it. You can accept blame for just about anything--you could have prevented it. But that's the reason to take all reasonable safety precautions. To me, it's not a question of whether saw stop is a good idea--it's just whether it is reasonable at this point.

You fault. Why didn't you have a door closed or barrier up to prevent this?

You fault. You should stack things more carefully, and anticipate what might happen if they fall.

Your fault. You mean you didn't install a backup power supply on your lighting?

I'm fully ambulatory, but I feel exactly the same way.
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Aren't you reaching a bit? I know the technology exists for backup power supplies, but honestly, how many people do you know who have set it up. A computer, electronic equipment, ok, but general house or workshop lighting?
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