Spray Finish Recommendations

Page 1 of 2  
Currently looking to get several recommendations for a spray on finish for some cabinet drawer fronts and doors. Will be applying a natural stain on cherry and would like to know recommendations for top coat. I have a Earlex HV5000 HVLP Spray Station gun (as yet untried) that I will be using,
Looking for a satin finish material, not sure the best way to go, a poly or a varnish type material. Thinning recommendations, time between coats, any and all info. Have a couple of books, that seem a bit shy on info .
SteveA
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I go with Lacquer, the solvent version is a bit easier to use, but now they have the water based.
It's great and durable finish, I use Canlak, http://www.can-lak.com/en/content/index.aspx
With an HVLP gun, I get excellent results with both water and solvant based, unlike what you can find on internet concerning the water based.
both products need roughly 15 minutes between coats.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'm a big fan of the CrystalLac water based finish that you can get from McFeeley's. Since it's a water base, you can spray indoors without having an explosion proof ventilation system (but you still need some decent venting). I've had good luck spraying it with my HVLP sprayer. Planning on using it for the top of a table I'm completing now. Haven't had to thin it out of the can, can spray successive coats pretty quickly (around an hour I think). Biggest issue with the water based finishes is how it raises the grain. Need to spend a little time prepping your work (dampen to raise grain, sand, repeat) for best success.
Gary in KC

Earlex
or
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SteveA wrote:

Where/what purpose will the cabinet serve? For a kitchen or bathroom cabinet I would recommend a different finish other than one I'd recommend for a stereo cabinet.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:07:23 GMT, the infamous Nova

Well, yeah. One -hand rubs- a finish onto a stereo cabinet.
--
The only reason I would take up exercising is
so that I could hear heavy breathing again.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hey Larry, any particular reason you're dredging up all of these dead threads from months ago? Dead thread dredging generally points to people being at, ahem, loose ends.
R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:42:11 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

It's called, "catching up".
Compared to the quality of most of the posts, his are a breath of fresh air.
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Spraying a top/finish coat successfully, including thinning, timing, thickness of application vs. dried coat, how much to thin, etc., etc., is a pretty subjective experience. It is a different experience for every machine, climate, and material being used. That's why there is so little cut and dried information on the subject.
There is a lot of information in this NG you can search through Google to find a lot of answers.
You best bet is to buy a quart or two of product and practice with your selected material on a sheet of plywood until you get the application process to the point you are happy with the results and confident in their repeatability.
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My thoughts exactly, which is why I posted the question, I am looking for a starting point for materials. I understand that there will be some trial and error involved, but I was looking to avoid spending time and money for materials with a great hype, but do not fit the task at hand. Who needs to store another dozen cans of materials for trial and error experiments, I would prefer to narrow down the list to a handful to begin the experiments.
SteveA
wrote:

Spraying a top/finish coat successfully, including thinning, timing, thickness of application vs. dried coat, how much to thin, etc., etc., is a pretty subjective experience. It is a different experience for every machine, climate, and material being used. That's why there is so little cut and dried information on the subject.
There is a lot of information in this NG you can search through Google to find a lot of answers.
You best bet is to buy a quart or two of product and practice with your selected material on a sheet of plywood until you get the application process to the point you are happy with the results and confident in their repeatability.
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Perhaps I should be more specific on the question, I am looking to finish door and drawers on kitchen cabinets that I have built. They are face frame boxes using cherry for the frames. I used the natural stain, Minwax 209 on the frames and then applies several successive coats of satin poly by hand starting with a 50% cut, 25% and then the final. Minwax ( have had good luck with) does not recommend thinning out their material for spray application. Although I plan on trying this anyway with the satin poly, as a sort of a back-up plan, I was looking for recommendations for alternative finish materials for spray application for the doors and drawer fronts. These will be slabs for both of cherry which I will undoubtedly stain again using the natural stain, as I want a tint without loosing the cherry wood character.
Would like recommendations on both spray poly materials as well as Lacquer for a satin finish.
Hope this clears some of the gaps a bit...
SteveA
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve:
If you have poly on the wood now, you should stick to poly. Nothing sticks to polyurethane like the polyurethane from the same manufacturer.
I don't know why you thinned the poly, but the Minwax stuff is so forgiving it simply isn't needed. In fact, thinning that product can be counterproductive as it cuts down the layout time which diminishes application marks such as brush strokes, or light/heavy gun passes.
You should be aware as well that polyurethane has diminishing returns on multiple coats. Eventually, you will probably see witness lines as well as adhesion problems between the coats (depending on how they were applied).
Polyurethanes will not build a monolithic finish, but will remain in layers as their resins and solvents do not dissolve in to the previous coats. There is a "second coat" window as well, and if you don't observe it, you will be putting down new finish coats that adhere, but not as good as possible if they were put on in a timely fashion.
Again, Minwax poly (solvent based) is bullet proof. Follow the instruction on the can and don't screw around making the finish into something it isn't. It's a plastic resin coating.
If you want to build your coats and goof with a lot of variations on finish, then switch to lacquer. You can build the coats, thin this way or that, sand, polish, and all manner of variation on that theme. But lacquer should go on by itself, no primer, and not over another finish. It will bite into stain just fine, but allow the stain (if oil based) a week or so to cure out before applying your first coat. The stain must be completely dry to the touch before application of any finish over it, but lacquer is particularly unforgiving of the linseed oils and petroleum products in oil based stains.
If you want to make your glossy lacquer finish a satin finish, use the finest scotch brite pad on a block to knock down the shine. Don't use steel wool as it will leave its metal fibers behind and it is much harder to get a consistent satin finish. Also, since the padding nature of steel wool does not provide and 100% consistent, even cutting surface you will find it hard to keep from having inconsistencies in the reflectivity.
To get the best satin finish, DO NOT knock the shine off the lacquer until 21 days have passed from your last coat. It will be its hardest at that time, totally cured out. This will make it much easier to control the appearance, and will keep the finish from "pilling".
You don't need lubricants to do this. No mineral oil, soap, hair oil, motor oil, or some special grit lube from England claiming to be the long lost secret of the ancient craftsmen. The lacquer will scratch easily; brush, and vacuum as needed while working. When you are finished creating your satin finish, take a barely damp rag for final cleaning, and a toothbrush to get the crap out of the nooks.
As far as favorite polys go, I have had good luck with almost all of them. In abrasion/adhesion tests, Minwax consistently performs just as well as the more sexy and harder to find brands. If you like the way it applies and you are happy with your surfaces after you are finished, stick with it.
As far as lacquers go, the stuff I really like is about $65 a gallon unless I buy a case. So when I don't need a case, I tend to move towards the Old Masters lacquer. It has a high solid content and seems to perform quite well in almost all conditions.
Then there is Deft. One of the oldest finishes around, it is an oldie but goody. Often overlooked by those in search of something much more sophisticated sounding and not so pedestrian, Deft is a very solid performer that is a very good finish which is easily repaired if need be. I have had great luck shooting and padding Deft, but brushing it was a disaster for me.
Next, don't buy crappy lacquer thinner. Stay away from the junk they sell at Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace, or any of those places. The stuff they sell is pretty much gun wash and works well for that. Go to a real paint store and some branded lacquer thinner that is the more expensive, virgin stuff. They sell that at Sherwin Williams, Benjamin Moore, etc.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that buying an expensive finish will make your finishes better. But a couple of cans and spray out some different mixes to see what your fun likes. Practice with whatever finish you buy to make sure you aren't practicing on your projects.
Good luck!
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<snip great coatings discussion as usual>
Robert,
Do you have any experience with marine varnishes, especially Epifanes?
At about $35-$40/liter, the stuff is definitely on a gold standard of it's own, but wood boat guys swear by it.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No, I don't. I would love to try some on a piece or two of wood, but they don't give samples.
There was a place here in town called "The Sailboat Shop" where they refurbished boats as well as selling them. I had a buddy that worked there, so I dropped by on occasion.
They had a very experienced guy that used to strip and refinish their wood appointments and utility areas and he would use it when the $$$ were there. He did some beautiful work with the Epifanes products. The only thing I really remember about his work (outside of how nice it turned out) was when he was telling me you had to use their ancillary products the whole way, no substitutions.
Then for some reason or another, they lost him. I wasn't able to pick his brain any further.
They replaced him with an ace finisher, and the finishes he left behind (even if it was something as benign as spar varnish) looked like they were applied with a shovel and rake. The SBS quit the refinishing of wood after that.
What I wouldn't have given to spend an afternoon in the shop with their good finisher. I was completely fascinated by a product that he used freely to seal surfaces that would be used underwater, yet provide a good enough (great, actually) finish for the appointments.
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I have been reading your answers on finishing for quite some time now. I think there has got to be a book deal in there. I am not having a fit of Da Funny here, I'm dead serious. Solid expertise is hard to come by. It doesn't have to be a War & Peace on finishing, just some solid info in a small pocketable booklet. Maybe Charlie Self can give you some input.
As the old Jewish saying goes: If Not Now,.. When?
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

I would second that. I don't own spray equipment yet, but it's one of those tools that's on the list.
When I do make the plunge, I'll also have to cull all the nailshooter posts from Google and make my own book of Robert's Proverbs on How to Avoid Embarassing Finishes or Spray Like a Pro! It would be ever so helpful if you'd just do it for us, Robert, and I'll gladly shell out the $19.95 + S/H to Amazon.
You've obviously got the knowledge, and you have another must-have: the ability to explain yourself to the vast majority of your readers. Sure some of the postings can be edited, and you'd need graphics to go with it, but you're sitting on a small gold mine there. Worth a few minutes' thought.
Tanus
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thanks for the kind words, guys. I truly appreciate it. I enjoy helping people that are trying to learn things and making an honest effort.
I think there could be a market for some kind of finishing mini book simply because it is such a hard subject for many woodworkers.
In my remodel/repair business I am often invited to see the proud father or a woodworking project built in a small shop or garage. The woodwork part can at times be really great. The finishing is most usually not so great. To me it is a shame to see someone spend hours and hours building something nice only to make it look like a junior high shop class project by using poor finishing technique.
I honestly thought about putting together a 50 page book to cover spraying, thinning, product selection, coloring of wood etc., that just hit the highlights and pitfalls.
But as you have mentioned Charlie Self, I remember him talking (either here or somewhere else) about putting either a small book or long article together to get published and it sounded like more work than building a house. And Charlie has been doing it for years and years.
If I did put something together, it would probably have to be looked at as a fun project, not a money maker. In that vein, it could be a good bad weather project, something I might enjoy doing.
It could be interesting... :^)
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

It could make some money, but that shouldn't be the driver. The book would be a niche market item and not an expos of Michael Jackson's breakfast habits.
You could also do the Kramer thing and make a coffee table book. <G>
Simple, small, durable cover (like the engineering handbook-type covers) something that will stay opened on the page you want. Maybe add a page what wood one would use when smoking a brisket to comp [liment the choice of bourbon and cigars..<G>
r
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Just like the Leigh D4 manual. Best I've seen to date.
scott
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

snip
I find those handy myself. I like the fact they stay open, but I like the ones that have tables and reference charts in them that will stay on the page you need.
I think a handy chart to have would be a conversion chart for thinning. Most manufacturers use milliliters for measuring (for thinners, accelerators, etc.) and while that is quite accurate, who has a 5 ml measuring device?
Actually, just about everyone does. Who knew that one teaspoon was 4.9 ml? What a timesaver I found when I got a kitchen chart that converted measurements. So now when I mix a quart of my witches brew, I use my stainless steel measuring spoons from the kitchen store. When the suggestion from the manufacturer is XX ml per quart, I am ready. No conversions needed.
Another great illustration would be when the manufacturer says to "thin no more than 10% of volume". OK... you've opened the can of finish, used some of it, and resealed the can.
Since you are somewhat less than a quart or gallon, how do you hit 10% right on and not take a chance on desegregation of solids?
Easy. Take a clean paint stirrer and stand it straight up in the can. Remove the stirrer and wipe carefully away from the clean side. Measure the length of the paint or finish stripe on the stirrer and add 10% to the length of the stick.
That is the kind of stuff I would have really like to have someone tell me or show me when I started finishing. To this day, I don't know anyone besides me that uses kitchen spoons, or just puts a stirrer in a can to measure volume. Most of the finishers I know (damn few) trade on the "voodoo" aspect of finishing because they really don't know what they are doing.
I think a lot of folks make it all too difficult. I appreciate the "mystique" of the craftsman with 40 years of experience, but I am in this to turn out a good end product and make money. I like speed, repeatability, and ease of application. When it works right, I really enjoy finishing.

Ok, NOW you could have a handy manual. Practical, too. After you shoot a wall of sags, drips and have overspray clouds that are detected by satellite, nothing seems to settle the nerves like a nice glass of bourbon with that really hard, clear ice in it.
In fact, that could be a writing aid as well, no?
Robert
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Somebody wrote:

Very straight forward.
Used to make finished reports for presentations, etc.
The only thing special is a paper punch that punches a series of rectangular holes along the 11" dimension of the paper.
These holes then accept a plastic spline containing individual plastic spiral rings that fit into each rectangular hole to form a finished report..
Based on past experiences, could probably punch, collate, and assemble 100 sets, 50 pages each in less than 4 hours.
As I type this, have an assembled report on the desk beside me, just can't remember who makes them.
Should be a standard office supply item.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.