Shop Classes

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following:

Yes, RIPRAT!
-- The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been. -- Madeleine L'Engle
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<snip supporting rant>
There is no question our educational system is in serious trouble.
The current educational process is a failure IMHO.
Gone are the traditional trade apprentice programs, but not the need for the product that these apprentice programs produced.
High schools have for various reasons, no longer offer programs in home Ec, sewing, wood working, auto shop, etc, but the need for the finished product still exists.
(Wonder if my high school still offers a 4 year agriculture program. Farming has changed, but it still is big business in my old home town)
4 year academic high schools are producing a product that often requires remedial instruction at the collegiate entry level before they can proceed on the business at hand.
Not a particularly good mark of excellence for our public high schools.
The kids themselves face a totally different world than most of us faced in our youth.
Kids no longer have time to be kids.
Cell phones, TV & personal computers have replaced parents in far too many homes IMHO.
For the life of me, can't understand why more than maybe 10% of kids need a cell phone.
Basic respect for authority seems to be non existent.
I still remember getting mouthy with my high school foot ball coach, a retired pro football player.
BIG MISTAKE.
During football practice, received an "Attitude adjustment" that made me see a few things differently.
I don't have any meaningful suggestions, but the current administration is giving the problem something other than lip service to the problem.
Time will tell.
Lew
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Nonsense. Two plus two still equals four and the methods of teaching it have not improved despite decades of tampering.

No doubt the role of "kid" has changed.

The concept of instilling discipline was removed from schools by vocal, yet wimpy parents, decades ago. That is the failure of our schools, today. You can't leave kids with an adult for 8 hrs, yet strip that adult of all adult authority. That's just insane and it makes for insane kids.
Geez..... don't get me started. :|
nb
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If you leave discipline to the teachers, you've already lost the battle. Discipline begins (or should begin) in the home. Period.
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If you take discipline away from the teachers, you've also lost. Teachers that cannot effectively discipline their classes will get run over.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

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On 2010-04-23, Puckdropper <puckdropper> wrote:

Worse, many parents are openly hostile to teachers who make any attempt at discipline. I can't tell you how many times I've heard irate and indignant parents say, "How dare that teacher discipline my kid!". That's a clear message to the kid he has no reason to respect another adult's authority. This is just absurd. Unfortunately, this stripping of a authority has become institutionalized and is the basis of so much of what's wrong with the last couple generations.
nb
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On 2010-04-23 01:00:31 -0400, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> said:

True -- I wasn't advocating teachers should be unable to discipline, but merely pointing out they should not be called to act in place of parental responsibility.
Full disclosure - my wife is a high school English teacher.
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On 4/22/2010 2:39 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

The Bush administration gave the problem more than lip service and we ended up with "no child left behind", which has apparently resulted in all children being pulled down to the level of the slowest. Wanna know why no shop classes anymore, there you have it--there's no standardized test for it.
If the Feds included "must be able to square a block with a hand plane" in the skills that kids have to demonstrate then you'd see those shops open right back up. But they aren't going to do that because it's not a test that an automatic scoring machine can grade.
If Obama's "doing something" is anything like what he did about "health care" ("you people who don't have insurance because you can't afford it, go out and buy it anyway or we'll fine you, and if you're so poor we can't get a fine out of you then you're screwed") then I expect a disaster.
Look at what he says he wants to do: "Improve K-12 schooling" by some magic process as yet undefined, "Expand access to higher education" when a college degree is already pretty much meaningless, and "make sure our children are prepared for kindergarten".
If I saw that last from a netloon I'd just plonk him--not even worth trying to discuss anything with such a buffoon. But there it is, that's how we're going to fix education--start earlier with the same old ineffective worthless BULLSHIT.
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On 4/21/2010 11:39 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

<snip>
HISD has a much touted policy of their high schools preparing students for careers as office workers for government and corporate entities.
Politicians prefer unarmed peasants sitting in cubicles.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:26:55 -0500, the infamous Swingman

...and they all end up as mantra repeaters: "Do you want fries..."

Who will vote for them no matter what assinine antics they pull. Like signing unfinished 1,000 and 3,000 page bills without having read them. If I were the Prez, I'd find a way to impeach every last one of them, toss them out on their asses, and revoke their retirement and elitist healthcare packages.
-- ...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work. -- John Ruskin
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On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:04:40 -0400, Steve wrote:

Luckily, they still exist here in Spokane WA. At least wood shop does. I know at least two wood shop teachers that shop at the local Woodcraft.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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Still here in Saskatoon, too.
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wrote:

The cost of running 2 or more "shops" is likely equal to the entire budget of the rest of the school. Regional schools, tech and community colleges have taken over. Too bad too. At the high school level, at least a kid got a taste of a variety of processes and was better equiped to make their choices of interest sooner.
P
--- ---
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