Sawstop - ok, does it actually work?

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You _can't_ "install" one. It has to be _built_in_ to the saw.
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:55:56 GMT, bonomi@c-ns. (Robert Bonomi)Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:
snip

Bull$h1t
Jums, git the welder, torch, and that BFH in the corner. . . we'll git this thing installed...
heheh
Traves
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:34:10 GMT, "Frank Ketchum"

I saw a demo, and it did certainly work, dunno what damage it did to the saw tho, it was dramatic. My guess is the saw will never cut straight again, then there's the cost. A new thing from Sawstop, a new blade, and possibly a new saw, or a re-alingment as well. Just learn to be careful!
But why just table saws? they cause the most accidents, but probably because they are the most common tool. Routers and circular saws must also be up there. Why provide a "safety blanket" for one tool, and lull amateur woodworkers into the "parachute" syndrome?
Barry Lennox
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wrote:

I think that table saws are the most likely candidate for this. Routers are handheld and it is likely that stopping one with a heavy bit in mid rotation will rip the thing out of your grasp.
Circular saws are often used to cut through wood with nails in it and are used in the rain so they would get triggered by accident. They are hand held so all the energy stored in the spinning blade would cause it to move around if you stop instantaneously. It would also make them heavier.
Joiners have very heavy cutter heads so that instantaneous stopping would be tough and would probably be rather destructive.. They also don't chop off fingers, they only shave the ends off of them so it is not as easy to find pictures which will make you queasy - gory pictures are necessary for getting legislation passed.
I'm working on my own top secret HammerStop which will prevent you from smashing your thumb. Sorry can't tell you all the details, but you know those big foam fingers that people hold up at sports events...
-Jack
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:39:41 -0700, JackD wrote:

I wish you'd have perfected it about 30 years ago. I was adding on to my first house with the FIL's help. Had the footing forms all nailed up and was staking them in. The 1 x 4 straps were nailed on with 8d duplex nails and somehow I rested my right thumb on the head of one while holding a 1 x 4 stake against the side of the form so the FIL could hammer it home with the 8 lb maul. He missed. After I unplugged my thumb from the duplex nail head, it looked kinda like one of theos big foam fingers, only with blood spurting out.
-Doug
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Hey, you can't do that, I've already patented "Hammerstop" It's based around a small heat sensor in the hammer head that senses human flesh warmth. It only works when the hammer blow is under way, an acceleration sensor disables it at other times. When triggered, it sets off an air-bag about the size of a basketball. Neat idea huh?
Anyway, I reckon it will only add $41.39 to the OEM cost of a hammer, so, yes, that will represent a modest increase at the retail level. But it will be worth it. I reckon it will save millions in health costs each year.
But anyway, whining about the tiny little extra cost won't help. I have petitioned the UN to make it compulsory worldwide, and they have agreed. This is reportedly the first useful thing the UN has ever done.
Other things coming are a "Screwdriverstop", a "Canopenerstop" a "Papercutstop" an "Unsafesexstop" and others I cannot reveal.
Barry "The stopper" Lennox
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:05:52 +1200, Barry Lennox

What, you're going to outlaw BEER!!!!
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:15:02 -0700, Tim Douglass

No not me, though I feel another good idea coming on. An alcohol sensor that fires an airbag on the glass, if it senses more than x mg on your breath.
Sorry, gotta rush to the Patent Office, then gotta call at the Surgeon-Generals Office to petition him to make this complusory.
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On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:39:38 +1200, Barry Lennox

that'd be when i take to bringing my own glass to the party
Traves
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Don't worry. On SawStop's web site, they state that the technology can be adapted for other woodworking equipment.
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Yet another negative - they're trying to force everyone to have one of these and the moment it goes off, you're probably out the price of a new table saw. I'd rather take my chance and practice proper respect and care whilst using the saw.
Renata
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:21:22 +1200, Barry Lennox

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says...

I haven't been paying that much attention to this thread, but you guys got me to turn around. Are you actually saying you would rather lose a finger or a hand than buy a new saw? Even the most scrupulously careful can have an accident. Or don't you believe that?
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Lawrence Rottersman asks:

I'd be interested to find out how many people have lost an entire hand to a table saw. Some, I'm sure, but....
As to the rest, I don't think anyone is saying they'd rather lose a finger than buy a new tablesaw, though in some cases with the rise in price that SawStop is certain to bring, that might be an option for people who otherwise would have to drop out of woodworking.
What they're saying, IMO, is that they do not see a company worming its way into government arenas to force us to buy a safety attachment that is proven, to some extent anyway, in experimentation, but unprove in real life use. There are other methods that can help prevent, or reduce the severity, of accidents at relatively low cost, with no harmful effect on the tool after it use. European style crown guards are one. Over-the-blade box guards are another. Splitters are another.
We have no information, and SawStop is carefully not providing any, on whether or not the reaction of the brake will ruin the saw, the blade, whatever. Supposedly, you can pop in a new cartridge and merrily saw away. Practically, one does have to wonder what that sudden stop, and quick drop, will do to a carbide tipped saw blade, not to mention the arbor bearings and the arbor itself.
So, no: no one wants to lose a finger in preference to buying a new saw, but we do wonder, if my above suppositions are correct, why in the hell we should allow the government to force us to buy unproven technology. I'm often classed as a liberal, but I do not see this as a political issue. It is an issue of overweening business arrogance, added to a similar dose of "We know what's good for ya" from the Feds, which tends to mean, at least to me, that the average cost of a decent contractor saw is going to pee an arc that reaches $1000 in short order, with cabinet saws jumping proportionately.
The company estimate was originally for a $150 addition in cost to the saw. With government intervention, any need for price moderation disappears, and we're quite possibly looking at another $600 hammer.
No thanks.
Charlie Self
I think we agree, the past is over. George W. Bush
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Rich Davis, the inventor of soft body armor, routinely shoots himself to prove that his product works. It is amazing to watch him take a 6" 44 magnum, hold it against his chest, and pull the trigger. I believe that he has done this over 1,200 times. He truly believes in his product. SawStop likes to test their product with a hot dog. I guess that they have done one test where they slowly touched the blade. I would like to see a real demo of the product where they rip a piece of wood and run their fingers directly into the saw blade. You figure that when you rip a piece of wood you move the wood 10 or 20 inches in 3 to 5 seconds. Now THAT would be an interesting demo.
--
David Chamberlain

snipped-for-privacy@nospamhotmail.com
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I took a .38 caliber to the chest with body armor a few years ago - completely knocked me on my ass and cracked a rib.
I don't even think I'd test the Saw Stop by putting my finger on the flat side of the blade at full rpm - just the friction burn would hurt! :-)
Jums

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On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:00:29 GMT, Lawrence Rottersman

No, nobody has ever said that. Don't bother attributing statements that were never made. It's pig-ignorant.
There are a number of other more relevant issues: Including:
I, nor anybody I know, has lost any body parts to a circular saw. I have had a few injuries and bruises through kickback. Sawstop does not stop that. Therefore. based on MY experience, it's useless.
Yes, the careful can have an accident. But most do not. It's all about responsibility. Some would be better taking up knitting. If you simply pay attention, concentrate and ALWAYS know where your hands are, it's hard to get cut.
Sawstop says "all the right things", but it's really about them making lots of money, by compulsion.
If it goes off with wet wood, will they give me money-back warranty on all the parts that require replacement. No they will not.
What's the total cost of mandated sawstops vs the cost of the accidents they would have prevented. I will not accept any figures Sawstop produce, they have a vested interest here.
Barry Lennox
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snipped-for-privacy@operamail.com says...

on my mood, but what I am constant about is the belief that people should be free to do what they please with their own bodies, so long as it does not intefer with the safety of others, which is why having brakes on your car is a good idea to be mandatory, while wearing seatbelts (also a good idea) should not be required by law. Nobody (imho) looking at a tablesaw cutting wood for the first time needs a politican to tell him what it can do to his bodyparts.
I also think companies should be free to make as much money as they can, although not by way of Enron, World Com, etc., and they should do so out of their pocket, not that of the public treasury
Anyway, in reference to the two people whose posts I reacted to did, for me, make the inference clear they would not buy Sawstop because it wrecked the saw when it worked. However, I'm quite sure they are smarter than my smart-assed remarks above and are more than welcome to my apology if they think one is needed.
One last thought. Safety, if taken too far, can be dangerous too, as in the overly prudent driver. But for people like me, who have to balance their love of woodworking with their inclination to carelessness, than safety does have more than usual importance.
No, nobody has ever said that. Don't bother attributing statements

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Over on SMC, a letter from $aw$top in response to an email by a SMC member said they are trying to engineer it so that the saw won't run without it to prevent users from disabling it.
wrote:

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Can't be done. I can get around anything.
wrote:

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On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:26:13 GMT, "CW"

i agree. . . if its a TS witha motor...you can, to quote tim allen, "rewire it"
Traves
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