Re: Ticked at Rocklear

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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

My impatience as you so cleverly put it was determined by the carpenter I have on site, working. How about I send you the bill for his time to wait some portion of two weeks? I also have no reason to think that they would remove ALL lighting from the store while they've kept loads of other things like knobs, hinges, bits, books and other things that I'm sure don't sell as well.

I don't think you get it. It's not like they have UC lighting and just not what item or model I wanted. They had NONE, but the section was still there.

I shouldn't have to pay for things that should be in the store which were removed by some management droid based on his desires as revealed by the sales associate. Remember, this SA had other problems over the same thing and tried to get the guy to change things. He wouldn't making the SA's job difficult, so the SA quit as he told me that customers were complaining and he didn't like having to answser the problems he didn't create. That says something.

Free shipping = 2 weeks(maybe) in time. Not always a good trade. In this case, you're forgetting there is a cabinetmaker working on site.

Not according to the SA who allueded to other similar problems and was quitting over it.

Have you ever managed a retail store? I have. They put extra crap in the place where the "lighting" stuff was. Not a new product.

Had it been what I thought to be a low demand item, or obscure thing, I'd have done that. I don't think that UC lights are obsecure as compared to the knobs, bits and other things that are in the store. I don't think I'd buy that, especially in light of the SA's comments of other problems this guy is causing. That is what tells...isn't it?

--
Thanks,

Ham

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It's their store; they make the decisions. You don't like their decisions, you should spend your money somewhere else. It's that simple.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@think.not says...

So then, the lack of preparation on your part constitutes a crisis on their part? Seems to me that you should have planned to have the materials on site and returned the items you didn't use after the build.

And your point is?

You've got to be kidding me. The Milwaukee store has no lighting at all, but they can order it from the catalog and get it within a week. Once again, poor planning on your part...

See previous point about poor planning.

Once again - get over it. Plan better next time. Have more than one option available. Let Rockler corporate know about the issue. What do you want, a freaking medal?

Unfortunately, bad assumption on your part. Good luck with the project.
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Rick

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Did it possibly occur to you that plans *sometimes* change as a project moves along? In this case, we're renovating a built-in cabinet-oak beadboard on sides, new oak-framed glass shelves, etc. My SO wanted lighting, so it was an evolution, not something planned, but happened along with other things. That simple.

I can't even get replacement bulbs for the existing product in the store, let along things that are standard items.

Nope, according to THIS store, 2 weeks minimum, maybe. No absolute time frame.

See my point about plans changing along the way. That *does* happen you know...

You're acting like an arrogant butt....You ought to have a clue that yes, planning is important. BUT....*sometimes" changes occur along the way that are NOT PLANNED! Like I've said, I'd have NO COMPLAINT if it were obsecure items. NONE. This is everyday stuff. Besides, as the SA said, *other customers* are having similar problems over other items and management is *not listening*. Somehow, that seems to be an indication of something being wrong with what's happening at the store. What about that don't you understand?

Not an assumption on my part at all. It's what the SA told me...the one who was quitting over these problems. He was tired of having to deal with the upset customers and not having products...along with unresponsive management.
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Bob Brogan writes:

Go back in a month and see if he's still there.
Charlie Self "The function of posterity is to look after itself." Dylan Thomas
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Actually, I called Rockler offices today and spoke with them. It seems they said I shouldn't have been treated this way at the store or online. They said I shouldn't have had to pay shipping on the stuff not there. That's the good part.
Where I was mistaken is that apparently the UC lighting had not been selling even as well as the lowly, occasional router bit or book. They were surprised as well, but said they were going to provide other avenues for existing buyers of the product, perhaps a kiosk in-store for this and other products like this.
So, it seems I was both right on the customer service aspect and how I should have been treated and incorrect on demand(which even they were surprised at). Oh and the SA is gone,too.
Did I forget to mention that I spoke with Ms. Jackson? A very nice and most gracious owner. She said that above all else, serving the customer is formost and wanted names, times etc., to look into this since she felt I should have been treated in a more accomodating manner.
--
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Ham

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snipped-for-privacy@think.not says...

Of course plans change. Kinda like a store's stocking policy on light fixtures...

Where did you get replacements before this project? Have the original bulbs lasted 6 years?

OK - again, different store policy. Maybe your store only orders stuff every 2 weeks.

I understand that stores change their policies all the time and don't bother to call or write me to see if it's OK to do so. Case in point - my local Ace store no longer stocks 3/4" BX flex conduit. They did stock it 2 months ago. I could have raised holy hell and told the SA that management sucked because they chose to let the inventory run out and not stock it anymore, but I realize that not every store can stock every item.
You know, if this is everyday stuff, why don't you head on over to your local Ace hardware, Farm and Fleet, or Home Depot or any other store that carries lighting? As for the SA, well, s/he's just an SA and not the manager. Go to the horses mouth.

Not once have you mentioned that you spoke to the "unresponsive management". You have said repeatedly that you spoke to a SA, who could have been yanking your chain. If your contention is correct - that these UC fixtures are common - then you should have been able to find a couple in the metro Chicago area - and probably closer to home than Rockler is. Instead, you chose to publicly lambaste a store because it changed its stocking policies and you don't like it.
Just who is acting like an arrogant butt now?
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Oh, now it makes sense. It's Rocklers fault that you changed your mind. I'm sure the carpenter loved that idea too.

So again, you are stating that any business that doesn't do things the way you would is wrong. Got it.
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The *Change* was to add something that I'd bought in that store in the past. Given the size of this store things like the UC lights and replacement bulbs should be in the store.

No, what you don't get is they are removing things from the store that are in the catalog in a BIG store. Not even replacement bulbs! And the SA's are having problems with these things and the customers not getting what they need. The proof is in the pudding.
In fact, I spoke with the owner in MN and was told I shouldn't have been treated this way. That is ARJ. Is that enough for you?
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Ham

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wrote:

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wrote:

According to you. They, apparently, don't think so. As they own the store, they have a bit more say in things like this. Tip: People that don't think like you are not necessarily wrong.

Store owner while you are there: "aw you poor thing, those mean ol store people shouldn't have treated you like that". Store owner after you leave: "I'm glad that twit is gone".
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you so cleverly put it was determined by the carpenter

Is the store responsible for the carpenter you hired?

Their store, their decision what to carry. Sorry they didn't feel the need to consult you on stock.

So, if a store decides they want to carry something else or quit carryiing something, they should what? Go out of business then reopen with a new store layout?

Open your own store. That way you can decide on inventory.

So its an unpopular decision but they don't have to do a popularity poll before making stocking decisions.

Then do so. Wasn't that easy?

wait until

Yes, and?

Yes it does. It says they have internal problems and, as you are not an employee, you have no say in it.

You hired him right? Why is that the stores problem?

If you were the manager there, you would have a say in it. You aren't so you don't.

calling
Yes.
Your way or they are wrong? How many businesses do you know that are a democracy were the general public votes on stock?

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You didn't read that the SA was having problems so bad he quit over things like this, done for no reason. Does the proof being in the pudding come to mind?

It's a big store, perhaps 5-7000 sq ft retail space, maybe more. As I said, I can't think that some of the numerous books sell as well as UC lights, and no replacement parts like bulbs either as I said.

Sorry pal, but what's in the catalog should be in the store. Have you ever managed a RETAIL store or run a business? I have and the CUSTOMER is FIRST. In this case that space where the lightings was didn't contain NEW stuff, just used as a storage spot. You can't sell something folks don't know is there.

According to the SA, other customers were complaining and management was not responsive. He was quitting over it so he said.

You can pay for the carpenter to wait. When you can order from the catlog and it gets to your home in 3-5 days, why should it take 2 WEEKS to get to the store? Why should the store offer to have it shipped to the store, why not order it and ship to your home?
Too bad you don't understand customer service. Guys like you are what are wrecking retail stores when they manage things and make customers testy with your lack of customer service.

Where did I say I should? You should try reading comprehension classes.

It's not, but when I go to get something that had been in the store for years, and is a COMMON item and in the catalog, it should not be a problem.
You seem to have a policy that the customer is always wrong and loses. Glad you don't work in a store I owned. I'd lose customers.

Nice try at moving goal posts, but that wasn't the answer to the question.

they're not, but in near every case I've seen, when stores make decisions like this, it bites them eventually because they aren't serving the customers, they're serving themselves.
Without the customer the store is dead. You'd do well to remember that if you open or work in a store like this. I've managed a business for 25 years and always had repeat business, except for things that came via a political connection from a rep who had the client in their pocket. That happened because I made the customer FIRST, not a casualty of bad management.
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Ham

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[snip]

Totally unrealistic.

Managed a retail store? That stocked everything that was in the catalog? I doubt that, somehow. [snip]

Well, you're moaning and whining because they didn't do what you think they should do. Not very much different.

Just because it's in the catalog does not mean it's gonna be in the store. It's very common for catalogs to have a much wider selection than the retail stores. Do you expect to go into a Sears store and find everything that's in their catalog? Sheesh.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Used to be an "A" store was defined that way.

retail
in
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wrote:

I could certainly better inclined to agree if Rockler were a *general* hardware store, but this is a *speciality* store. the catalog is not that large, so to think that what's in the catalog should be in the store would not seem to be unreasonable.
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Bob Brogan writes:

Unless it's a corporate store, there's no way on earth company management can force them to carry any particular item. I don't know if this particular store was a franchise operation or not, but IIRC, both Rockler and Woodcraft are fairly heavily into franchising. Corporate loses a certain amount of control when someone else actually owns the store it is supplying.
Some guy who owns a franchise might well believe that a hinge that sells 1000 units a year is a better SKU than is a light that sells 50. Or a book that sells 50 copies is a better bet than those 50 lights, because the book's gross profit to the store is 12 bucks and the light's is 3.
Having a full load of stock in the store may not be unreasonable, but for some owners it may well be unaffordable. If it's unaffordable, carrying all the extra items becomes unreasonable because it puts them on the edge of bankruptcy.
No store is obligated to carry the same stock all the time, regardless what many of us might wish.
Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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Charlie, you're making far to much sense for this guy. He'll never catch it.
corporate store, there's no way on earth company management can

store
control
1000
gross
some
what
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CW writes:

Well, I watched the retail guys go nuts at Woodcraft when I was there because they couldn't get a franchisee to carry a strong line of power tools, with their high ticket, low margin work-up. He claimed that the percentage wasn't enough to justify, etc., etc., etc. And he has a lot of company, though to as vociferous. A lot of people would rather sell 1000 $10 blurfls at 65% gross profit than 2 $1500 blurfls at 17% gross profit, especially if the cheaper blurfl is a near certain 1000 seller in the period of time the 2 expensive items might move.
I don't know the final resolution, but there were rumors the company was going to buy out the franchise. I got let go before it was resolved, or at least before I heard about it.
Sometimes franchisees can be ballbreakers, and justifiably so, IMO, because their investment starts around half a mil for a full-sized store.
I haven't seen one yet, but there are smaller market franchises available, with 2 now open, 1 in my old home town of Albany, NY and another in a town near where I will soon be living, Roanoke, VA.
Anyway, IF the Rockler store is a franchise, that may explain part of the changes in the line. And, as I recall, I'd be really curious about the sales associate mentioned earlier. He was going to quit. Did he, or was that more balm for the customer, who is not always right, but is always the customer, from whence all profits flow? Or was he a lot like a couple guys I got promises about years ago: "We'll fire those turkeys today. They can't treat our customers like that." So the boss fires the guy, in front of the customer, and a week later, he's back in place, probably never having left.
Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Charlie, I spoke with the corporate office and they mentioned the "store manager" so I don't know if it's a franchise, but I'm thinking it isn't. The times I've been there it seems like a company store in that the SA that quit referred to some manager over the stores who made these decisions to take stuff out and that customers were complaining and he wasn't listening. Also, in talking with corporate, they didn't make a reference to it being a franchise and thus things being "out of their hands" so-to-speak.
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Jim Polaski
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