Re: SawStop files with GPO/CPSC for mandatory use in US

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No, I would be a hypocrite if I past on getting one on my next saw or passed on a retrofit. I am not in the market for a new saw right now. If however I could adapt my saw for 3 or 4 hundred dollars today, I would do that.

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Agreed.
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Well Dave it sounds like you have all your bases covered and should not think about safety any farther than you have at this point. I know that this all sorta new to you and that with your precision and forethought that nothing will ever happen to you in the shop requiring a trip to the ER. So for you and all the ones that think like this, I say good luck and be careful but don't be shocked when some thind does happen.
Me, I am a realist. I know I am capable of getting hurt in the shop, and did after 10 years of experience. I know that accidents happen and no amount of preparation can prevent all of them them. I have meen reeeeal lucky in the last 14 years as my track record has been clean. Now you and I know that 14 years of no accidents and 8 of the profesionally is not pure luck. I do exercise caution with all my power tools and that really is why nothing has happened again, but I am not so silly or ignorant to believe that it could not happen again. So, I would just as soon have the Saw Stop or Similar device, government or no government involved. Nothing complicated about that decision. Pretty simple really. The lessor of two evils.
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Leon wrote:

When you settle for the lesser of two evils, you are settling for evil. Do you really want that?
I have no objections to purchasing a safety device for my saw of my own accord. But I'll be damned if some money-grubbing company tries to FORCE that purchase down my throat without even a choice as to the manufacturer!
If it were an open market with several competing companies making similarly effective saw safety devices, it'd be one thing, but the only people who benefit financially from SawStop's petition is THEM.
It's greed taken to an extreme form.
Fuck them.
CJ
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snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net says...

If Saw Stop gets their way, it will be the CPSC and Saw Stop dictating what contstitute his wants and needs.
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Why is it so hard to understand that anyone buying a new table saw *will* be forced to buy the $aw$top?

Not if this petition is adopted by the CPSC, you can't. You won't have the choice.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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well, they'll fall until the company decides to either stop making table saws, or goes out of business. in either case, the competition will decrease, which tends to force prices up.

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Well Dave I don't want for it to required either. I would love for it to be an option in later years, but when the time comes, I'll take it any way I can get it, required by the government or not.
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it's already available. do you have one already? if not, then you're a hypocrite. you're waiting for it to become mandatory first? then your argument doesn't make sense.
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My point is, I want one on my next saw, right now I am not in the market for a saw. My next saw will have it if they are still available. If the government mandates a safety device of this kind, I will not have to worry about IF the product will be available when and if I do purchase another saw. If the government does not mandate this then I very well may miss out on the opportunity along with most every one else.
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But I thought you were concerned for your safety, Leon. If you're really as concerned as you claim to be, sell your current saw and buy a $aw$top immediately.

If you buy it now, you won't have to worry about future availability, either.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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Concerned enough to buy one? Obviously not.

Very revealing.
You object to doing what I want you to do, but you have no hesitation in asking the government to compel me to do what you want me to do.
You want to retain the choice of when to buy a $aw$top. But you don't want other people to be allowed the same choice you want for yourself.
You're a hypocrite.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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I am not really sure any more Rob... ;~) I have been in here for so long today that I think that I am answering my self... LOL Good night and thanks for the lively conversation.....
Be careful.. Leon

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:37:21 GMT, "Leon"

Answering yourself is OK. It's when you start arguing with yourself that you have a problem.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net says...

lists and getting the statists in our government to mandate the contents of those lists.

Ben Franklin's application was slightly different, but his words are applicable: "Those who would give up a little liberty for security, deserver neither liberty nor security"
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Boy... so yours is the openion that should be observed and not mine... Living in a free country entitles the citizens to voice their views... I value yours and mine.

That is the American way .... I believe.. Perhaps if those people that are sick and tired of those people that are getting things passes by the government were to push back a little harder, things might be more to your liking.
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:29:18 +0000, Leon wrote:

Jeez, Leon. At least update your spell checker for openion -> opinion. You've been using that on every post, so it's not a one time thing.
-Doug
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My spell checker has a mind if it own..... Some time I have to misspell a word 6 or 7 times to get it to accept it... ;~)
Opinion...... I think I hit Accept all instead of correct all...
Good night... I think.

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:20:41 GMT, "Leon"

Yes, they are, Leon. Your opinions and the opinions of others who believe the same way you do steer government every day. As you mention later in this letter, though, your opinion won't individually sway the final decision on this matter. That's why I'm going to take some sound advice you've offered in your reply...I'm going to try to ignore anything else about Sawstop in this group after I send this reply, and I'm going to spend my time making sure that my voice is heard where it may do some good. One thing I think I'll do is contact tool manufacturers to try to find out if there's a good reason that they have not chosen to install Sawstop on at least some saws, rather than relying on others' statements that they've heard certain rationales. Maybe there's a problem with the technology that none of us even know about.
Damn ,can't I put in a wish list like any

Leon, that's really the crux of all debate, isn't it? Obviously, each of us believes that the other's opinion is not entirely valid -- otherwise, we would have nothing to argue about. My main problem with the opinion you have expressed in this debate is that you seem to be a bit selfish in your thinking on this issue...you think that mandating Sawstop is a good idea, not because it is good for the country, not because it is a solid governmental decision, but because it will ensure the availability of the technology when purchasing it is more convenient to you. I find that to be a disturbing reason to advocate governmental interference in the free market.
I also think that your argument has caused you to make some rather hypocritical comments, and I think it weakens your own arguments about why we should welcome Sawstop no matter what. Let me break down one of your main arguments:
You have advocated Sawstop as so necessary that you think the federal government should get involved to ensure its survival. You have stated that this device is so valuable that we should not have any problem spending our money on it. In fact, you told me, "Family should always come first and taking care of your self in the shop helps you and your family. A price cannot really be put on you [sic] ability to provide income for your family." However, in the same reply that you included that statement, we established that you are absolutely unwilling to part with "in excess of $1,000" to purchase this safety feature.
Apparently, Leon, you have put a price on your safety and your ability to provide income for your family. Maybe that price is only valid so long as you think that the government will bail out Sawstop and ensure the availability of the technology for your later purchase. I'm not sure. I don't really know you. But I do know that I can't respect your argument that the safety afforded by Sawstop is priceless, so much so that I should want the federal government to intervene essentially on the company's behalf, so long as you demonstrate by your own actions and words that you do not think it is priceless.
By the way, Leon...notice I said I could not respect your argument. Since you seem to be getting a bit angry at the constant arguments against your way of thinking in these threads, I want to clarify. I didn't say I could not respect you...I don't know you. Maybe I would respect you if I knew you, maybe I wouldn't. I simply cannot respect the argument you've put forth in these threads. Eric Ryan E-mail me at eryan /at/ qconline /dot/ com
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Bring me $2000. and I'll order my new SawStop saw as soon as you are loaded up. :~)
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