Re: OT - Is it really worth saving any more?

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wrote:

After reading you for awhile, I think you have good intentions/reasoning at heart...what we have are two similar cultures with a couple of *major* differences, and I'll leave that right there. However, your statement above smacks of arrogance...don't be offended, I think we all are that way in one situation or another...but that mindset is what is taking both cultures over piecemeal: basically one aspect of society, usually the one in control, telling the other what's good for him...because, of course, we (the minority) don't know what's good for *us*; we don't think very well and need to be led by the enlightened.
cg
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There's one significant difference that appears to have eluded you: unlike you with your health insurance, I paid for my guns myself, instead of expecting other people to buy them for me.

Why do want to deprive me of the means of defending myself?
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you
expecting
What's different? I pay my share of taxes. It's money taken out of my paycheck that goes into government coffers and is partially redistributed back as health insurance. So you paid cash for a gun. I paid cash too, only the money went a slightly different route. Either way, we both paid money. Is that so hard to comprehend? Is there really so much difference?

I don't want to deprive you of defending yourself. I just feel that the average person does not have the experience, knowledge or proper training to handle a firearm in the proper way. Maybe it's difference for most people in the US. You tell me.
Take the right to bear arms one step further. Forget about hand guns. Why doesn't everybody in the US have a sub machine gun instead? Why isn't everybody driving around with a bazooka in the car trunk?
You keep on and on about defending yourself. Is everybody in so much dire peril of being attacked that they have no choice? Is that the type of society you live in? If so, I'd be gone in a flash. You might consider it an illusion, but I feel safe when I go out. It's just my viewpoint, but there's a lot of nut jobs out there. If firearms were relatively easy for anybody to get, then I'd start being more fearful than I am. Sure, I try to be fully aware of what's going on around me when I go out, but I'm not going to treat it as an atmosphere of fear. I don't call that living.
I trust in our police force to do their job and do it well. Yes, I know they can't be everywhere at once, but I do feel protected for the most part. If I didn't then I might feel as you do and want to be armed. But, I'm not at that point yet. Maybe in the future.
I guess it all comes down to existing circumstances. Maybe if I lived in US society and not Canadian, I'd feel more comfortable with guns being as prolific as they are. But the fact is that I'm Canadian and I live pretty much in the centre of Canada's largest city. Many people crowded together where things are more likely to happen is a much greater catalyst than someone living in the country. Having many guns around to me anyway, is like throwing gasoline on any potential fires that might crop up.
That's it. I'm done. Have a good day.
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Training is required by law for those who carry in public.

Why, indeed. The 2nd amendment is decidedly not about home defense or sporting arms. To blame you personally would be misguided and useless. It's enough to note that your fearful bleating is of the same note and tenor that led to the restrictions and bans we have today. So, let me ask you. Why should a government fear their citizens keeping weapons that would be effective against main battle tanks and armored personnel carriers?

Nope. And it also is not about the quality of beef at the supermarket.
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Where??
Certainly not in Indiana, where I live. The only requirements for obtaining a permit for concealed carry are (a) passing a criminal background investigation, (b) being fingerprinted, and (c) payment of a modest fee.
Please note that I'm *not* commenting on, and don't intend to start a debate on, whether this is good, bad, or indifferent. Just stating that's the way it is.
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Doug Miller wrote:

Here is the Arizona summary of gun laws:
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_az.htm
Again, no comment on good, bad, etc. One interesting point is training is required for concealed carry, but not for open carry.
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What does that training entail? There's two types of training. I can see basic gun training as learning how to safely handle a gun and perhaps some target shooting so when one uses a gun, they at least have a decent chance of hitting what they're aiming at.
Then there's the dozens of hours of situational training where one learns how to handle dangerous situations. Learning when a situation is threatening, how to possible avoid that threat or handle the situation with the possibility of minimizing violence and the need to shoot someone ~ similar things like that.
Don't you think the situational training is at least if not more important to know and learn than the basic training? The average person on the street has very little idea of how to extricate themselves from a dangerous situation other than shooting someone. Is it different in the US? Have you all been exposed to so much violence that you have the instincts to know what's best for most situations?
Does this make any sense? Of what use is basic training when all it comes down to is shooting a gun? There's much more to know and learn.
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wrote in message

Is anyone [ Y - A - W - N ] still reading this [ Y - A - W - N ] thread?
Dave in Houston
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You're here so apparently your life is pretty boring.
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Think of it as meaningful in the same sense that driver education is meaningful in relation to a drivers license. It amounts to squat. Forget I mentioned it. I agree with that entirely.
OTOH, the parallels are appropriate at many levels. Suppose I didn't like automobiles. Mortality and morbidity rates are on my side. Explain to me your need to own an operate private transportation.
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Doug Miller wrote:

Missouri has a concealed carry law that requires both class room training and range skills testing. Costs about US$120.
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Doug Miller wrote:

Used to be you learned firearms skills from your father, but not so much any more. I think it would good to have a mandatory marksmanship and gun safety class in high school. But it would never happen; imagine the noise the politically correct left wingnuts would make if you tried.
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On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:40:22 -0700, Just Wondering

Could require a military boot camp semester for all high school students to graduate.
Now where will this end up
::stir::
Mark
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Markem wrote:

I recommend a mandatory fire arms training course. Mandatory completion and minimum target score to graduate.
The gang bangers will still shoot each other but at least they will know that you don't hold the gun sideways and they will be able to miss the innocent bystanders.
Dave
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Depends on who he's shooting at. If he's shooting at you, then by all means, let him hold the gun sideways. And when he's shot by someone else, at least he can say he was being fashionable when he was shot down.
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I'm all for that! Wimmin too! And upon completion, allow them to take their weapon of choice home.
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Markem wrote:

I understand that Vietnam has 3 years of mandatory military training for everybody. Not service--there's additional training if they actually get called up--but training as part of the normal education. Now given that Vietnam is a certified ultraleftist liberal workers' paradise, one suspects that the Dems would jump right on such a plan.
--
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--John
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On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 23:27:03 -0500, "J. Clarke"

...don't the Swiss have something similar? No question, though, they take their weapons home; for the duration. We don't hear much about the Swiss Berserkers...oh, Isreal's service commitment is unigender and required...interesting juxtaposition...
cg

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Charlie Groh wrote:

And in Israel people regularly get shot up, blown up, and otherwise killed, but not by people who are legally armed and despite the best efforts of the Israeli government the people they don't want to be armed seem to be getting all the weapons they want.
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You know WHY they're getting attacked. They are on land that doesn't belong to them. Other than that, next time you go trolling, don't use bait that looks as artificial as this ...
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