Precision tenons?

I have been looking for the best method but my search is still not finding good info.
I use a Delta tenon jig. to get the tenon width I have a nice method of using a spacer that is the desired size of the tenon plus the saw kerf. So my cheek to cheek is precise. What I want is precise shoulders.
I first do a cross cut around the shoulders a little less deep than I will cut the cheeks. I can get that precisely where I want it using my miter guage and a stop block on the fence. Then when I cut the cheeks using the jog. I use a flat ground blade and raise the blade a little at a time in setup until I just match the earlier shoulder cut. But that is not exact. I can get it pretty good but as I said it isn't exact, it is two cuts defining the shoulder and slight shifts can make a little difference when running 20 parts, etc.
Anyone else have a bettr method?
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On Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:22:49 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Pat Warner does... www.patwarner.com
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On Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:10:13 PM UTC-7, JayPique wrote:

Nice site, I have poked around there before. I looked again for info. I guess I need to hire hime to give me lessons? A repeatable precison method with a router would be fine I just need some easy way to find out what that method is.
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On 5/31/2012 4:22 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

a spacer that is the desired size of the tenon plus the saw kerf. So my cheek to cheek is precise. What I want is precise shoulders.

the cheeks. I can get that precisely where I want it using my miter guage and a stop block on the fence. Then when I cut the cheeks using the jog. I use a flat ground blade and raise the blade a little at a time in setup until I just match the earlier shoulder cut. But that is not exact. I can get it pretty good but as I said it isn't exact, it is two cuts defining the shoulder and slight shifts can make a little difference when running 20 parts, etc.

I only use my miter gauge and rip fence as a stop.
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Ya, me too. I lay down the stock on the table and use the miter gauge to run it over the dado blade. The fence is the stop. Simple and it works great.
John S.
On 06/01/2012 06:37 AM, Leon wrote:

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Might be:
http://patwarner.com/images/tenons.jpg
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On Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:22:49 PM UTC-7, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I appreciate everyone's input. It is a very minor issue I am trying to solve and I have been given good input regarding how difficult I have found it to explain my issue. I will pursue the routerman approach if he returns my email so I can determine how to get the info I need from him to learn his approach.
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On 6/1/2012 3:49 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

a spacer that is the desired size of the tenon plus the saw kerf. So my cheek to cheek is precise. What I want is precise shoulders.

cut the cheeks. I can get that precisely where I want it using my miter guage and a stop block on the fence. Then when I cut the cheeks using the jog. I use a flat ground blade and raise the blade a little at a time in setup until I just match the earlier shoulder cut. But that is not exact. I can get it pretty good but as I said it isn't exact, it is two cuts defining the shoulder and slight shifts can make a little difference when running 20 parts, etc.

and I have been given good input regarding how difficult I have found it to explain my issue. I will pursue the routerman approach if he returns my email so I can determine how to get the info I need from him to learn his approach. If I read you correctly, it sounds as if no one answering thus far quite grasps the mechanics of using a Delta tenoning jig for making precise height cheek cuts, after you've taken great care to make the initial shoulder cuts to precisely match the project length of the piece.
Having passed a few thousand tenons over the table saw, at a minnimum, I feel your pain.
That said, in my mind, the cleanup involved in doing it this way falls in the category of "fine tuning" a joint, and that is supposed to take some time and effort ... and more than makes up for the opposing shoulders being precisely the correct length apart. :)
_IF_ I'm going to use my Tenon Jig, what works best for me is to get as close to perfection with the blade height as possible when using the Tenon Jig to cut the cheeks and, short of perfection, always erring slightly on the side of an undercut, leaving a slight ridge that can be easily cleaned up with a hand tool.
A good sharp shoulder plane works well to cleanup any ridge, but, with a little practice, the flat side of a pattern maker's rasp works well, and on most errant pieces takes just a couple of swipes.
Good luck with that ... machine precision, no matter how well setup, is not always obtained without some hand tuning. :)
YMMV ...
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I go at it the other way. I make my shoulder cuts first, a tiny bit deeper than they "should" be. I then cut the cheeks to size for thickness, but a tad (~1/16) less deep than the shoulder, allowing the kerf from the shoulder cut to finish the cheekcut-off. This leaves a 1/8 wide band around the bottom of the cheek that is a tad thinner than the rest of the cheeks, but it's hidden when the joint is assembled. The loss of contact for the glued up joint is negligible and shouldn't affect joint strength.
Regards./
On Thu, 31 May 2012 14:22:49 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

spacer that is the desired size of the tenon plus the saw kerf. So my cheek to cheek is precise. What I want is precise shoulders.

the cheeks. I can get that precisely where I want it using my miter guage and a stop block on the fence. Then when I cut the cheeks using the jog. I use a flat ground blade and raise the blade a little at a time in setup until I just match the earlier shoulder cut. But that is not exact. I can get it pretty good but as I said it isn't exact, it is two cuts defining the shoulder and slight shifts can make a little difference when running 20 parts, etc.

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"Pat Barber" wrote:

------------------------------- SFWIW, that is a dead ringer for the set (1/4", 1/2" & 3/4") of sleds used by Cerritos College for box joints.
They do a great job.
Lew
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On Thu, 31 May 2012 14:22:49 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

spacer that is the desired size of the tenon plus the saw kerf. So my cheek to cheek is precise. What I want is precise shoulders.

the cheeks. I can get that precisely where I want it using my miter guage and a stop block on the fence. Then when I cut the cheeks using the jog. I use a flat ground blade and raise the blade a little at a time in setup until I just match the earlier shoulder cut. But that is not exact. I can get it pretty good but as I said it isn't exact, it is two cuts defining the shoulder and slight shifts can make a little difference when running 20 parts, etc.

If what you are trying to do is quickly and accurately control the height of cut of the table saw blade, maybe what you need is an accurate height gauge such as this one:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Dial-Height-Gauge-6-/G9618
and a rip blade with flat raker teeth.
Or you could even make your own stand for a dial indicator.
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