Pocket screws AND biscuits?


I am building a cabinet that is way too big for my clamps, and doesn't have parallel sides anyhow; so gluing the shelves in dados would be difficult.
When assembling the shelves, I would like to put in a few biscuits to make sure the alignment is correct, and use pocket screws to actually hold it together. I have had problems in the past getting things perfectly even with just pocket screws, but the biscuits ought to fix that.
Any reason this is a bad idea? (other than the obvious one that pocket screws are inherently improper)
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Grab yourself some assembly squares from Rockler. I've got about 4 sets and they are ideal for this task, and for general box and case construction http://tinyurl.com/9mfzo
-- Regards,
Dean Bielanowski Editor, Online Tool Reviews http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com Complete our tool survey, Win $200! ------------------------------------------------------------ Latest 6 Reviews: - Betterley Tru-Cut Insert System - Digital Calipers & Height Gauge - Delta SS250 Scroll Saw (Review Updated) - Porter Cable FR350A Framing Nailer - WoodHaven Biscuit Master - EZ Smart Guide System ------------------------------------------------------------

have
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Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "3-D Square" from Jevons Tool Co. http://www.jevonstoolco.com/_wsn/page3.html is: a) machined aluminum alloy (vs. molded plastic), b) nearly dead-on square (vs. having a nodding acquaintance with square), and c) the _same_price_ as Rockler's inaccurate Clamp-Its if you buy it at the Woodworking Show.
Rockler charges $12 ea ($10 ea for four or more); Jevons charges $50 for a set of four, and show pricing is $40.

Only if you have a very relaxed definition of "square"...
If you think they're ideal, you must not have ever checked them. I bought a pair, got them home, and checked them by setting them up thus _| |_ on the table saw (closest thing to a dead-flat surface I have). With the "squares" touching at the bottom, I measured a 0.018" gap at the top.
Took them back to Rockler to exchange them... and found that I had actually gotten one of the "better" sets they had; most of the others were much worse. Left with a refund instead of an exchange. And bought the Jevons squares at the next woodworking show.
[Disclaimer - no connection at all to Jevons Tool Co except as an *extremely* satisfied customer - fabulous product.]
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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0.018" gap is relaxed enough for me :) Never had a problem using them on any woodworking tasks.
That kind of accuracy is not going to be easily visible on shelf alignments at least. I use them all time on box and drawer construction and never had any noticeable problems, but as you say, we all have different ideas of how "square", square needs to be :) The item you have menioned looks like a worthy alternative however.
-- Regards,
Dean Bielanowski Editor, Online Tool Reviews http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com Complete our tool survey, Win $200! ------------------------------------------------------------ Latest 6 Reviews: - Betterley Tru-Cut Insert System - Digital Calipers & Height Gauge - Delta SS250 Scroll Saw (Review Updated) - Porter Cable FR350A Framing Nailer - WoodHaven Biscuit Master - EZ Smart Guide System ------------------------------------------------------------
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:03:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Hey, we agree!
I bought a couple of these POS and contrary to usual practice, took their word for it that they were "square." My bad.
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So how soon are you ordering your 3-D Squares from Jevon? :-)
I gotta tell ya, they're great. I love 'em - wish I'd had those years ago.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Hi Toller, I have noticed that when using pocket hole screws, unless the two pieces are tightly clamped, there is always a bit of movement with the last few revolutions of the screw driver. I do not think biscuits will keep the shelf from creeping a bit. I think the "L's" that Dean mentions or a block clamped above the shelf are in order. JG
toller wrote:

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I did a bathroom vanity with twin tenons and pocket screws. The screws were useful during test assemblies (to substitute for glue) and acted as clamps during the final glue-up.
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Biscuits and pocket-screws have worked great for me, for just the reasons you suggest. As others suggest, neither, nor both, are a panacea. Especially if you want really precise locating, it takes care and attention.
Location and number of screws is also important, depending on the materials being joined, to get a tight joint. At least, unlike the famous "brads while the glue dries", the screws can be removed, and reused.
Inherently, pocket screws are quite proper. :') IMHO.
John
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It's kinda like you're using two sloppy things to make a perfect thing.
The biscuits will get you close, but then you will have to clamp to get things close enough.
The pocket screws are really only temporary clamps, but not the kind of clamps that you would use for alignment.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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