Pex and hose clamps

The question was raised a few weeks back about using hose clamps on PEX instead of using the PEX rings and crinping tool. My brother had to install a new water softener in his hundred+ year old house and decided to use PEX rather than risk using the torch. He tried hose clamps, and after tightening them till just before they stripped (by trial and error) he turned on the water and blew the connections right off within minutes. After that he went and gladly spent $50 for a proper PEX crimper and rings.

Reply to
clare
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Well, I guess that settles that. At least it happened while he was watching. What would have happened if it happened sometime later, with no one around..... With some things, it just doesn't pay to fool around, take half measures, etc.

Reply to
trader_4

Sounds about right. There is a reason they make those expensive tools. Hopefully, your post will help others to avoid the problem.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Last summer I also used PEX to replace a very bad section of pipe in my

118 year old house.

Though I am known by my wife as one who makes half-ass repairs it did not even occur to me to use hose clamps.

The PEX fittings I used did not require a crimper and they worked perfectly.

All galvanized pipe was removed, so I went copper to PEX to copper.

Reply to
philo

Thats what I like about this newsgroup. You get actual results, not "facts" based on making sales. I actually thought that the hose clamps would work too, and they were just pushing these crimp rings and the costly tool to make money. Why these crimp rings hold better than hose clamps, I find somewhat puzzling. Hose clamps do get damn tight..... And why have they not developed a "better" hose clamp just made for PEX? There are times that pipes need to be installed temporarily, and those crimp rings are permanent. They can not be removed. To me, that is a "turn off" to using PEX.

I am planning to replace my pipes and seriously considered PEX. But after looking into the cost of the fittings, having to buy that costly tool, and more than anything, the fact that the ID size of PEX is considerably smaller than other pipes, meaning I'd have to use all 1" and 3/4" PEX, rather than 3/4" and 1/2", or use one of those "manifolds", which wont work for my situation, (on an existing building), without ripping too much of the building apart. I came to the conclusion that the only way to do my plumbing is to daisy chain the pipes like they have traditionally done since the beginning of indoor plumbing.

In the end, I opted to NOT use PEX. I checked into CPVC, which is much cheaper, and real easy to install, (and I have used in the past), and decided to just use that. However, where the source pipe goes to the water heater and over to the washing machine (exposed pipes), I decided to use copper, just because it's stronger, and tend to question using CPVC directly to the water heater, just because of the heat.

But once I get started, I might just end up using copper for everything. I installed a lot of copper when I was younger and know what I'm doing. And even though copper pipe is expensive, the fittings are still much cheaper than PEX fittings, and I dont have to buy any special tools.

PEX tubing is cheap, but when you add in the cost of the fittings, and have to buy that tool, copper ends up being about the same price.

Reply to
Jerry.Tan

Hi, I have couple joints leading to water softener. I used double(one after another) no leak, still holding after couple years. I bought the clamps from auto parts store. MY regulated water pressure is 60 psi.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

The PEX crimp tool is cheap (less than $30) and the crimp rings are cheaper that a good hose clamp. If I was using PEX I'd use the approved method.

Reply to
Vic Smith

Where did you get a pex tool for $30? Most I have seen are at least $65 and those are for only one size pex. The multiple size tools are $90 and up, and then you still have to buy a GO-NOGO gauge, ($10) and a clamp remover ($35 or more).

Then, if you're working in a tight place, you will need "tight place" crimp tool, which is operated by tightening several bolts. That one costs around $40. So, in the end, from the prices I've seen, to have all the basic tools would cost around $200 (or more).

I suppose a person could do the whole job with the "tight space" tool, but you'll probably spend 10 minutes or more per fitting. And you still need the GO-NOGO tool, and if you screw up a crimp, you still need the remover tool.

And I just know someone is going to say use "Shark Bite" connectors in this thread. Well, at $6.00 for one 1" elbow, and much more for Tees and other fittings, the price of that job could cost a small fortune. Plus, those "shark bite" connectors are not fail safe. A friend called me several years ago, and said whenever he turned on the shower in his tub, the bathroom flooded. After ripping out a wall, we found a "shark bite" connector right behind the pipe feeding the shower head. It was wedged against a 2x4 block, to which the shower head pipe was secured. The "release" portion of that connector was tight against that 2x4, and the pex pipe had come out of the shark bite fitting. I replaced the whole thing with copper for him.

Luckily it was not a pipe under constant pressure, ir there would have been much more damage to the home. The rest of his home had copper pipe, but the former owner of that home had a company remodel the bathroom, and they installed a new shower/tub faucet assembly, and used that PEX. Since the wall was open, we replaced the other two pieces of PEX that went from the basement for hot and cold water to that tub faucet, with copper.

Reply to
Jerry.Tan

They come off in about 2 seconds with the cutoff wheel in a dremel.

The Pex tool is about the same price as a good MAP torch, and you don't need to keep buying fuel for it.

That said, I'm still a copper man. Plastic for drain and vent.

If I was building a new home, I'd likely go with PEX. A lot quieter as the hot water warms up the pipe on a cold morning.

Reply to
clare

No reason you can't use the "tight place" crimper instead of the $65 or $90 tool. and my brother bought his 2-size tool for $45 Canadian.

That wasn't the fault of the shark bite. That's what you call an ID10T problem.

Reply to
clare

You'll probably find all those tools cheaper on Amazon. They have a well-reviewed crimper for 27 bucks.

3/8" to 1".
Reply to
Vic Smith

They have, they are called crimp rings. If you look at the ring versus a clamp you can see you get better compression of the tubing for better grip.

Do you find it easier to unsweat a copper joint? Really, if you know it is temporary you leave a bit of extra tubing and cut the ring off in a few seconds.

You still need a decent torch for copper. It was easier when you could still buy lead solder too.

You have a negative attitude towards PEX so it really is better that you use something else.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Hi, Of course cheap ones work well for few time use. I rent the pro quality when I need it for a job taking half a day or so. Good result needs good tool in experienced hands. I always like to watch pros do their work chatting with them when I have a chance.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

For all you know, pro plumbers are using this tool. But it doesn't take a "pro" to crimp PEX. None of reviewers said they were a "pro." And one did ~100 crimps. That's about 80 more than I'd need to plumb my entire house. I'd never rent an old tool when I can buy a good one new for $27. But if you want to pay more money to feel like a "pro", you can do that. Get the same exact tool at Lowes for $50.

Reply to
Vic Smith

When I sweat a copper joint, I know it's permanent and will not come apart. If by chance I made a poor joint, it will show up as soon as I turn the water on, and leak. But once I know there are no leaks, I can feel safe leaving home and not worrying about having a flood in the house.

With PEX, there is always the possibility that a joint was just slightly too loose, and some day I will come home and find water pouring out of my house because a joint separated. If I had PEX, I would always be worrying about that sort of thing, and I'd probably shut the water main valve off whenever I left home for more than a day.

So, maybe it is a negative attitude, but for just reason. I am going to stick with traditional copper pipe. Both copper and steel pipe have been around for many years and were always reliable and durable.

I do have a good torch, and it's a turbo torch with a hose between the tank and the head. I use it for lots of stuff, besides sweating copper pipe. A PEX tool only serves one purpose.

Lead solder was a little easier to use, but I quickly adapted to the newer solder.

Reply to
Jerry.Tan

The one my brother bought for 45? Canadian pesos handles 1/2 and

3/4", came with 10 of each size ring, and does not require a go-nogo guage. It is a ratchet crimper that will not release untill the clamp is fully tightened. He didn't buy it online and have to wait a week - he picked it up at the local hardware store - in stock, right off the shelf, 5 minutes from home.
Reply to
clare

Pex has been around over 50 years. If loose joints were a problem, it probably would have come up by now. Best you stick with copper though.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

If you aren't a cheap B@_____ and you buy the right tool it is virtually impossible to make a joint that is "just slightly too loose"

Reply to
clare

but Pex is supposed to freeze and thaw without damage. Copper tends to split, I've done that, but not by intention.] you buy the right tool it is

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon
[center posted like you. I've not tried it, It's called inline posting and is perfectly acceptable, stormy
Reply to
clare

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