Pocket door on a hidden base cabinet?

[OFWW]

I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and came up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing. So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in on a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.

[dadiOH]

My comment is, if it works and solves a problem, why not?

The only problem I can think of is that pocket doors require a pocket and pockets take up room. The life expetancy would be the same as for any other door...depends upon how well it was made and how badly it is abused.

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.

[Leon]

What limits your door to only open 105 degrees? The hinge? Use a different hinge for that door.

[dadiOH]

I missed the part about inset. An inset door is flush to the face frame which precludes it being a pocket door.

By "inset", did you mean BEHIND the face frame? Must be since you are thinking "pocket". I can't imagine where you plan to put the pockets though nor how you expect that pocket to not block other things.

Esthetically, to me, everything should be the same whether overlay, partially inset or inset.

[John McCoy]

"dadiOH" wrote in news:ngi15s$epj$ [e-mail]:

I think, if I'm envisioning things correctly, he has an L shaped block of cabinets. At the bend of the L there's a space that's basically inaccessible, into which he's going to put drawers which can be pulled into the adjacent cabinet space (i.e. in either the long or short leg of the L). So the pocket for the door would go into that space where the drawers are, and the drawers would be proportionally narrower.

I think he can make the pocket door flush to the face frame, because the pocket itself will be in the face frame that's on the other leg of the L.

Before I tried something like that, tho, I think I'd exhaust all possibilities for hinges. Things in kitchens are more prone to warp than most places, and warp in a pocket door could lead to a very annoying bind.

John

[Swingman]

First, let's get our terminology in synch. What is "hidden" about the base cabinet?

Are you talking about a "blind corner cabinet"?

As Leon mentioned, there are many different hinge options to chose from with varying degrees of opening and clearance.

_Always_ shop for your hardware FIRST.

Once you know the dimensions/installation parameters for the hardware, then use those to design your cabinet to accommodate the hardware.

As always, as long as you are pleased with the design, and it does not detract from future sale, go for it ...

Although I've used pocket doors on many cabinets, the only example I have a photo of is in my office ... mounting this one horizontally, gave me more room in the interior for a sliding shelf:

And yes, cabinet "pocket doors" can be installed as "inset", as you can see:

Again, the hardware is tricky to install (often requires the installer to fabricate a "follow strip" of a particular dimension), so it is imperative to carefully incorporate all the hardware requirements into the cabinet design.

You can usually find a link to "installation guide" online for most cabinet hardware on the same page as ordering info.

[OFWW]

What is a "Tambour" door?

[Swingman]

Providing you are making face frame cabinets:

What I often do on base cabinets that are in a corner, or will obviously have clearance issues with doors and adjoining hardware, is to simply use a wider stile on the offending side.

You can use a spacer, but the wider stile gnerally solves any clearance problem nicely.

FWIW ...

[dadiOH]

What is a "Tambour" door?

A tambour door is a roll up door (or maybe roll to the side). Conventionally, it is made by gluing thin, narrow strips of wood to heavy canvas. The edges of the strips are 1/4 round or beveled so that the canvas can bend. The ends of the strips ride in slots in end pieces attached to the cabinet or desk.

[OFWW]

Not just the hinge, but the adjoining cabinet or dishwasher, etc.

IOW's only half of a 48" cabinet is visible as half of it is covered by another cabinet, or dishwasher. In my case if the door is hinged on the left (for a hidden cabinet on the left side) then when the door is open it is in the way or partially blocking the door from fully opening. The oven handles prevent a 160 deg hinge and there is from what I see limitations of the actions of hidden hinges.

If the door is hinged on the right, then anything past 105 degree's will hit the adjoining dishwasher, plus you have the width of the stile to consider and it looks like the best you can get is a 20" door opening.

I'm probably not explaining this well. I have to go out for a bit, when I get back I can post a pic of a standard setup which would probably help a lot.

[Swingman]

You can also buy tambour door hardware, and pre-assembled tambour doors and cut to size.

How it's installed:

[OFWW]

Yes, the door would appear as if it were a normal inset door for all intents and purposes. It is a hybrid pocket door in that when the door is slid back it is not seen because of the cabinet next to it hides the back half.

In the FF.

That is what I thought, that there would be no getting around it, esthetically.

When I get back I'll post a drawing or two.

[OFWW]

You pretty much have it dead on.

The hybrid pocket door should take up very little space, if any. But the warping is one of the things that was on my mind as to whether or not it would be feasible.

[Swingman]

Example of the wider center stile when I design and build a blind corner cabinet:

Making this stile wider gives you wiggle room, both when installing a run of base cabinets to fit a certain distance, as well as wiggle room for any extra clearance you may need for doors and drawer hardware.

This specialty cabinet was made a little different than I usually make them, but the idea is the same.

[OFWW]

I just posted the pictures of my idea with a description, hope it is clear enough.

[OFWW]

OH, Ok I understand, those I don't think would be reliable enough, let alone fitting into the decor of the kitchen. Thanks!

[OFWW]

I remember those, and wow, I never changed my mind so fast as when I saw these. I told Dad

[OFWW]

I remember these, beautiful and looking rock solid.

I never changed my mind so fast, I just replied to DadiOH saying I didn't think they were reliable, given the desktop thoughts, even though I always thought they were slick as a kid.

It is a good option. Thanks.

[OFWW]

You are right, my mistake. I think I picked it up from You tube searches.

It has been driving me batty, Trying to find hinges that won't interfere with drawers, won't stand off to far on FF's and especially when trying to find hidden hinges for doors with an insert and 1/2" lap on the FF. I forget what they are called. It is what I currently have and I like the idea of shutting off the cabinets from dust n stuff. I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and into the cabinets it will go.

Plus with lack of experience working with them and asking people who work in the stores selling them who have even less of a clue than I and its like hitting a stone wall.

Plus my wife would like hidden hinges.

Yes, I have downloaded a few, and looked especially at the measurements. I understand now that a certain distance must be maintained between the ff and the door so the door can swivel without hitting the cabinet. But then they often stick out from the stile 5/8 of an inch or thereabouts on each side.

Today one manufacturer said I could place then anywhere from 2 to 6 inches from the bottom of the cabinet, or top which means that slide out shelves with a 2 inch or so sides should work.

I've asked so many questions already, that I hate asking more, when I haven't put all I have learned into practice yet. So I thought I'd at least do one blind corner cabinet first and then follow suit with whatever hinges and slides I came up with.

The lumber store I just found is closing its doors here in town for now but staying open elsewhere. At least they will still deliver what I need. but they were short on hardware, and Wood craft is really not much better as to having anything in stock to look at.

I've been considering going to a Rocker store about 70 miles away and bugging them for info on the hardware.

[Swingman]

After all, there are some 200 year old roll top desks still going strong.

While care in use would obviously be cautioned in a kitchen base cabinet, I did one install years back in the kitchen of a recording studio. It was as a retrofit in place of two top drawers, with a regular door on the bottom half. Thought it looked great, and the mechanisms have come a long way since then.

Also saw a bath vanity on Houzz just recently with tambour doors, so it is not unheard of.