plywood's getting thinner....

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On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:02:17 -0600, Duane Bozarth

I thought ply and other sheet goods were rated for strength, not for thickness, so '3/4" CDX' specified in order, a strength, a finish grade, and a glue type.
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U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles wrote:

I'm not sure about actual standards and a quick search didn't find a freely acessible vendor site, but it's clear that some (relatively few) years ago the nominal thicknesses of US manufacturers' plywoods went to a -64th or -32nd from nominal. Whether that was specifically to meet common metric dimensions for export or simply from a material savings standpoint I'm not aware, but I'm sure it was done by (and for) the manufacturers, <not> the (US) consumers. It was much less a pita about joining or matching thicknesses prior.
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I should, but the lumber yard isn't open at 8:30pm or on Sundays, or in the case of my posting, on New Years Day.
Bob
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On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 10:26:47 -0500, Nigel Burnett

Very unlikely. You know, you can usually get higher quality *and* lower priced wood by going to an actual lumberyard. I don't know about plywood specifically, but I do know that hardwoods are dramatically overpriced where I'm at. For example, Red oak sells for $2.35 a bf at my local hardwood dealer. All their wood is kiln-dried, and most of it is figured at least slightly- they carry about 20 different species of timber, plywood and mdf.
The other local lumberyard sells red oak (all of it is highly figured and very nice, from what I've seen of it) for $3.25 a bf. That yard will get your lumber to finished dimentions, S4S in their shop for $7 an hour- and they can get a lot of lumber through in an hour. It's all straight, and it's all pretty, but they only supply spruce, oak, and on a good day, beech.
Menard's, OTOH, sells a lower-quality oak for $8-12 a bf- It is dimentional, sure, but it is also warped and the "surfacing" they do is with sanders, and not with planers. They offer a pathetic selection of 4-5 different hardwoods, all with similar prices- I've seen cherry marked at over $25 a bf, compared to the dealer I use, who charges $5.50 for extremely curly cherry. (Lackluster cherry is $4.25 a bf) They call Luoun "mahogany" and almost every peice of lumber and plywood in the rack is twisted.
So why do people keep supporting these places? The borgs DO NOT care about the wood they sell. Your local hardwood dealers do- and they're probably woodworkers just like you. Ah well, may as well try and stop the relentless pursuit of WalMart. (Incidentally, I do not and will not shop at WalMart for any reason either.)
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I have an awesome hardwood dealer in the area. Unfortunately, he is 30 miles away from home and 45 from the office, and only open during the week from 8 to 4. He is open on Saturdays 8 -12, but I piss away the entire morning driving down there. I really, really, should plan ahead, piss the half day away, and stock up when I go down there.....
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30 miles, Bob? Hell, where I live, everything is only 30 miles away. That's just a commute.
--

-Mike-
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Shoot, there's no where even half the size of town within 60 miles of me, and none of them have a single hardwood dealer. Closest I can get to is roughly 200 miles and they have to order in most anything the least bit out of the ordinary...
I did order some clear pine through the local lumber yard and it cost more in shipping than the material... :( (They forgot to mention they don't order from that mill routinely so it came all by itself...)
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Whew... wait a minute- you live that far out of the way, and there isn't a sawmill around somewhere? Where do ya live, a desert? Anyhow, that sucks- but it could be an opportunity for you, if you've got enough money to buy large amounts and resell it to other local woodworkers.

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Prometheus wrote:

:) Not quite...it's arid, but not desert. Actually, it's part of the wheat belt and known for <not> having (or ever having) trees...short grass prairie, originally.

If there <were> any other woodworkers in sufficient numbers... :) There's a reason there aren't suppliers--there aren't sufficient consumers to make it pay.
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Sounds like you should plant a few trees and cash in a few years down the road. Or, is there some reason why trees don't grow well out there? I know about pollination and stuff, but that can be handled I believe.
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Upscale wrote:

Well, my grandkids would be the ones doing the cashing in, if there were to be any, not me... :)
It's simply the geography and weather of the High Plains...
It's semi-arid, windy and the soil is suited to the native grasses, not trees (very sandy).
A primary reason there were essentially no trees natively was that the prairies burned, on the average, at roughly 5-10 year intervals. When it's dry, open, the wind is blowing a dry thunderstorm can burn a whole lot of country in a hurry. The grass regenerates quickly, but woody plants don't.
There are now far more trees than ever from plantings and even the occasional "wild" sprouting since the grasslands are now protected from fire (and what ones that do get started are normally put out) even though there was one east of us earlier this winter that burned about 8000 acres because it was in areas not easily accessible.
For commercial hardwood production it would simply not be practical--the amount of irrigation and fertilization required to get a reasonable growth rate would be excessively expensive and the wind would be nearly impossible to prevent from making poor quality lumber for woodworking purposes. All trees lean to the north from the prevalent south wind and we think if it's under 20 mph it's "calm"--anything up to about 30-35 mph or so is just "breezy", and at 40+ mph we'll allow its a "tad" windy today... :) 50-60 mph is not that uncommon ahead of fronts w/ as the low approaches. This can easily last for a couple of days before the shift behind the front and the subsequent high pressure builds in.
I will note, however, that <eastern> KS, particularly the SE corner, is fairly heavily wooded and is still a major producer of walnut although nothing to the scale of the top two or three states for the simple reason it's a fairly small area in KS...
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On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:15:37 -0600, "bob"

Same here, but I work 4 ten-hour shifts, so Friday is my wood buying day! Usually does take half the day, after picking through the wood and shooting the shit for a while. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
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they're
stop
The borgs don't carry the volume that a lumberyard carries, that's one reason the price is high. They carry it more as a conveniences to the occasional customer who needs something in a pinch.
On the rare occasion I buy plywood, I go to HD because they already have 2x4 sheets, which fit into my Saturn.
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On 4 Jan 2005 06:02:10 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com"

Aha- I can sympathize with that one! We had a two-door something or other before I got my van, and it was a real chore to get anything moved around. I guess as far as volume is concerned, it's been my experience that the two within driving distance (Menard's and Home Depot- HD is a loooong haul, though) consider themselves one-stop shops for any amount of lumber. I think they're just overcharging for crappy wood, but that's their perrogative. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
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